W111-109-108-113 Mods - Page 16 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #151 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 10:29 AM
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Date registered: Dec 2008
Vehicle: 1965 W111 Coupe (with a twist).
Location: Connecticut
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Thanks very much for the info GGR and Brett,

I have a couple questions:

I was planning to fit a set of 3.5 V8 280SE W111 front springs that came with the car. Should I pass on that and just move up to the 4.5L W108 springs? Are they a straight swap?

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the "front axle leafs"? I do plan to go over the front and rear suspension and brakes over the winter, and replace bushes/etc.

Do you have any suppliers for polyurethane bushes for this?

The brakes work well, but the fronts are not vented and look kinda small. I was thinking of upping the fronts to 4.5l vented disks, but have not researched how easy/difficult that would be, would need to replace the master cylinder, etc. Any thoughts on that?

I am seriously considering ditching the two piece drive shaft and having a new one piece made. Several people have had good luck reducing drive line vibration with this mod.

GGR, I'd love to see some pics of your car and it's mods.

Appreciate any info/thoughts.

JM
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post #152 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 06:25 PM
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Date registered: Jul 2004
Vehicle: 1971 280SE 3.5 Coupe
Location: Nevada City, ca
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The steering is known to be quite good on these cars but as said there are a lot of rubber parts to deteriorate. It is quite common for the steering coupler to be bad. The tires will limit the handling on these cars due to the high aspect ratio and small size. I installed 16x8" wheels with 225/55/16 tires(the crappy Continentals that came with the wheels) and the difference was immediate-much more stable. When I am back on the road the fronts will be 15x7" with 225/60/15 and 235/55/16 on the 16x8" rears. 16x8 is a little too large for the front.

Tony
280SE 3.5 Coupe
Stick shift
3.27 Axle
5.6 Iron block build in progress
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post #153 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 08:22 PM
GGR
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Vehicle: W111 Coupe
Location: Washington DC
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The 3.5 springs may do a good job, but the 4.5 are a bit stiffer and are a straight fit. Given the weight and performance of your engine, I would go straight to 4.5 springs and sway bar. This is what I ended up doing, with an engine lighter than yours. The main difference among the springs is the wire diameter. So before procuring 4.5 springs you need to make sure the wire diameter is bigger than the 3.5 ones you have. Someone with a workshop manual handy may tell you what the diameter of the 4.5 spring wire is.

The front leafs connect the front axle to the front cross member. You should fit the shortest you can find for more caster. The car will track better on the highway. I have W109 6.3 ones fitted on my car, I think some W110 ones are also shorter. Again, exact lengths can be found in the workshop manual (that I don't have with me now).

Coxracing Group does the polyurethane bushings for our cars. The guy is specialized in motorbike aftermarket parts but if you call him he will send you the bushings. He will ask you what diameter sway bar you are using: http://www.coxracingroup.com/Contact-us

The 4.5 brakes will be a straight fit, unless you have a very early front axle. You will need the discs and the calipers. Replace all flexible brake hoses while you are in there.

Before doing anything with the drive shaft I would make sure all mounts are in good nick (including the cylinder shaped one at the center of the rear axle). Trans output flange and rear axle input flange need to rotate in parallel plans. Until you adjust engine and rear axle positions for this to happen, you will have vibrations.

As Tony said, check the coupling between the steering column and the steering box. You may also check if you have play in the kingpins. Looks like you are in for a busy winter as most of what you need to do are better done at the same time, not to repeat same operation several times.

Some info on my car here: '62 220SE Coupe 5.0 Presentation

Last edited by GGR; 05-27-2015 at 08:30 PM.
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post #154 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-28-2015, 02:39 PM
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Date registered: Jul 2004
Vehicle: 1971 280SE 3.5 Coupe
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I think Andrew Cox is out of the Mercedes business. I contacted him a few years ago and he did not have the poly bushings any more.

Tony
280SE 3.5 Coupe
Stick shift
3.27 Axle
5.6 Iron block build in progress

Last edited by 3.5 Tony; 05-28-2015 at 03:36 PM.
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post #155 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-28-2015, 07:13 PM
GGR
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I got some from him very recently. He told me he just renewed his stock.
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post #156 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-28-2015, 07:30 PM
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Thanks for the info

Tony
280SE 3.5 Coupe
Stick shift
3.27 Axle
5.6 Iron block build in progress
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post #157 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 02:51 PM
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Date registered: Dec 2008
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Thanks for the info guys.

I will check with the cox racing guys. Also will check the rag joint on the steering.

I did not know the output/input flanges needed to be in the same plane - I'll check that when I'm under the car. Not sure if it's possible to change the plane of the diff flange, but I guess the trans flange can go up or down fairly easily.

Thanks for the links to your car videos GGR. Performance and sound are great!

I found myself smiling when I heard that V8 sound - awesome!

I called a couple drive shaft places and I think I am going to have the two piece balanced and the joints checked/replaced before I ditch it. I'll also replace the center support rubber (again). The one I bought was NOS, but very old!

Great to know there are other like-minded crazies out there.

John
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post #158 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 04:34 PM
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Hi you do need to get the front and rear shafts balanced together as though they are one shaft. Find a drive shaft place than can do staked universal joints.
I am lucky,I have one close to me and it's a lot cheaper than getting a new shaft made.
The two piece shaft is there for a couple of reasons. In a crash the engine and trans are designed so that they go under the body,rather than into the cabin. The split shaft enables this. Also,the unibody does flex a lot and having a simple one piece shaft would not allow for the body flexing ,causing the shaft to hit the floor ,especially when the diff moves with it's rubber mounting.
Some cars ,ordered for countries with rough roads, had 3 piece shafts.
A simple trick to get rid of a lot odf vibrationj is to get the car on a four post hoist so all four wheels are carrying the weight. loosen the drive shaft center bearing mount and the large nut on the sliding joint (earlier W111 dont have this nut) .loosen the four chassis mount bush bolts for the front axle . Bounce the car up and down a few times, then retighten everything.
Because the front axle is mounted in rubber,sometimes things get a bit out of whack and misalignment occurs.
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post #159 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 05:30 PM
GGR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMott View Post
Not sure if it's possible to change the plane of the diff flange
The position of the up-right leg on the cylindrical bushing at the center of the rear axle will influence the rear axle's orientation. Also, if the bushing is shot, the axle's position will shift and the flange will rotate slightly upwards.
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post #160 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 07:01 PM
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Location: Connecticut
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Looks like it's time for some new rubber!

GGR, I looked at your Coupe and Pagoda posts etc. Most Impressive. You have created two great cars!

I bought my car while I was looking for a donor to do a Autoschmiede style mash up with a modern day Mercedes C Class. But I ended up really liking the car I bought, so I have shelved that idea (until I win the lottery).

Your creations are inspiring. I love the style of these early Mercedes, they are really great looking vehicles, but I find the performance lacking. You have cured that problem! Congrats!

Thank you for sharing your experiences and the knowledge you have gained.

JM
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