V8 swap into I6 280SE W108 - Page 9 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #81 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 04:40 PM
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Hey hellkat start another thread and post some pics. I'd really like to check out your ride. Later.

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post #82 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 07:28 AM
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i've been trying toupload pics since earlier this week,no matter what size i make them, this upload program keeps telling me they are to large......
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post #83 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gwunta View Post
Mercmad, you need to get off your Mercedes high horse. If we had the money, as you do, then sure, we could afford the original, but for some of us, who still LOVE the shape and the beauty of the old mercs, it just aint possible.
Gwunta - my original engine choice was the 6 liter V12 from the mid 90's W140. that would have given Mercmad a definite hard-on, but alas, the cost of finding a suitable candidate was not realistic. The SBC i am running was a present from a good friend - the price was very right. the total conversion cost so far is less than a 1/4 of what that V12 would have run (I still will do the V12 Mercedes engine if I can find a good one at a realistic price).
The transmission and oil cooler location you are seeing are the original locations. This has proven to not be ideal but the engine temperature has yet to exceed 100C even sitting in a traffic jam with 32C outside temperature and no airflow.
The car will be getting an HVAC system and possibly also receive twin turbos (again budget related). The transmission cooler then be relocated into the right fender with a scoop and suction fan and the engine oil cooler will go in the left fender with scoop and suction fan. The engine oil cooler is run through a thermostat right now.
You having a rear end from a 6.3 is crucial. I have been looking for one here or a quicker one from a 4.5L. I may just perform a ring and pinion swap but a complete 6.3 liter rear axle is a better choice (I really want that LSD).
Do you have some pictures of your project? would love to see some.
Keep up the great work.



Sorry Mercmad - get over it and rejoin reality for a change - with all do respect, you have provided some worthwhile feedback on this site, but your overall attitude pretty much sucks - what have you actually contributed and built on your own besides telling everyone (including me) that they are stupid? There is alot more engineering that is required in doing a full blown powertrain swap than sticking a sqare block in a square hole. Good luck with your life. Maybe some happy pills will help you a bit
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post #84 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 07:21 PM
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gustav, willing to travel to PA? a complete 98 s600 w/ a blown headgasket for 2500 obo. if interested i'll forward you the add.


My fantasy swap is to "pro-street" a w108 w/ the engine from the e63 amg as the base. I'm talking straight axle 9 inch rear/ wheel tubs with the front end converted to a mustang 2 front clip or if im daring just build a chassis car. Entire car would be low slung to the ground and sinister looking.

My fiance has totaled two e63 amg's. one hit a deer, the other was when her father borrowed it and lost control. Neither car had over 10k miles on it. Both times i wanted to try and buy back from the insurance. Yet they were way to steep for me at salvage prices.

i figure if i can coax 900 whp from a 2.0l 4 banger and run 9.3's in the 1/4-- what can i do w/ a 6.3l of german muscle and a nice 45r turbo hanging off it. In time i'll do it. Figure another 5 yrs those engines will be more pedestrian or ill be making more expendable income-- one of the two. Besides, i have enough cars to build besides my own and customers to worry about another.

link to a pro street style benz w/ domestic power--

Prostreet mercedes benz pt 2 - Car Videos on StreetFire
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post #85 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 09:06 PM
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mtkst19;

Many thanks for the offer - sadly, a blown headgasket usually also has many other issues also but thank you for the offer. In the meantime i have learned that the 6.0 liter is not the best choice and will require a full Motec conversion to make it run right.
The new AMG 6.3 liter is a phenominal engine and would be beyond amazing in a 108. I have been considering the Ford 9" rear end conversion due to its strength, but have not been able to find any images of a successful conversion - do you have any pictures of this?
As for the front end - I have talked with a fellow who had Fat Man Fabrications build a custom front suspension - looked like a pretty decent conversion except for the choice of brakes.
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post #86 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 01:03 AM
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why would you have to go to motec to control that engine? I know those v12's were ahead of the time--but there is nothing i would think lesser priced efi's couldnt handle. I wouldn't doubt megasquirt would run it w/ the advancements they have made. be honest, im not familiar w/ the v12. aside from a few oil changes here and there i have never worked on one. If it is anything like bmw's v12, then it should go straight to the shredder and sent to china.

If i were to go straight axle rear, i would back half the car. it would be no different than back halving any domestic. You basically cut apart the uni-body and add in a box frame then re-tin the rear floor/trunk.

For the rear back half I have no actual pictures of a back half performed. When I'm at the garage tomorrow ill ask my friend if he has pictures of when we did his car. Sadly, i don't personally own a camera. So every picture i have was given to me by other people. Go figure. Or try a Google search. i sure something would come up.

To pay for a a good basic back half setup-- expect to pay 4k for a plain jane setup that is a ladder bar w/ an 8 point cage and drive shaft loop. For the 4k, they should narrow your supplied solid axle. However, you are generally responsible for paying for the rear end/wheels/tires/brakes/shocks-- but the labor is included to assemble it. The chassis shop though will need all these parts so everything fits and they know where to put everything.

If you can weld, you can do it for about 1500 in parts/material if you buy pre-bent rear kits. Look into chassis shops local to you or look at drag shops or mail order places like s&w, summit/jegs or chassis engineering for rear kits built for domestics that you make work for your car. Suspension/rear axle can be had cheap too. A ford 8.8 is plenty strong and readily available in salvage yards from mustangs/explorers. So keep rear disc brakes. The coil overs are relatively inexpensive from places like q-a1.

With that said--I had my benz parked next to a friends 8 second 64 nova II that is drag car that is still street legal. It is not that street-able--but it is still state legal--go figure. Regardless, it is eerie how similar the lines flow. That is what got me started to the pro street style benz theme. Car i currently own is to nice to chop up. I need to find a roached out car to do this too.
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post #87 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 05:02 AM
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Sure Gustav, go to www.cripple.tk and you can see my build with articles and over 350 photos. Ive tried to document as much of it as I can.

Here's a link to a twin turbo w108 powered by a 308 Cubic inch GM motor (holden) The front grill is acutally and intercooler, pretty crazy! This car has a 9" ford diff in it. There's also some video footage of it. The car is up for sale and from the looks of some recent boards (last post by him was 17 April, 2010) he wants AUD $18,000 for it.

TWIN TURBO NITROUS 308 DRAG CAR TUBBED MERCEDES $$SPENT - eBay, Passenger Vehicles, Cars, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 16-Apr-10 18:08:06 AEST)

I have an 034 motorsport ecu that will be doing the duties on my engine. Its a "supplementary fueller" which has a 2.5 bar MAP sensor in it so it can sense when the engine comes into boost. A 1986 Camaro ecu takes car of the rest when the car is not under boost. There are only a few basic mods to get the 6.3 diff into the w108, nothing that couldnt be achieved in moer than 2 hours.

That pro street car as mentioned above is W114 by the looks, maybe a W116 but I dont think so.

As a point of interest, I took delivery of a W109 on the weekend. Its an original, matching numbers (engine and chassis) injected 6 cylinder W109 which I belive is badged as a 280SEL. From what I can find there were only 2500 of these made world wide (compared with 6500 6.3L W109's). Its got factory leather seats, factory air bag suspension, factory central locking, factory air conditioning, factory electric windows and it still has the original paint in good condition. The air bag suspension has recently had a full overhaul (I know the guy who did it) and the engine seems to be in good condition. Sale price: AUD $2000. I have yet to be able to find a valuation guide on a car like this (I can find a few on the 6.3 W109 but it aint 6.3, its and injected 2.8L). I spent yesterday fitting a set of hand controls to it (Im in a wheelchair and cant use my legs) and a I drove it to university today, without a miss, hiccup or anything. Everything works as it should so Im really happy with it.

If anyone knows where I can find a valuation guide for this car please let me know.

Thanks
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post #88 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 08:09 AM
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I'd like to see the last three posters projects in the future. Later.

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post #89 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwunta View Post

I have an 034 motorsport ecu that will be doing the duties on my engine. Its a "supplementary fueller" which has a 2.5 bar MAP sensor in it so it can sense when the engine comes into boost. A 1986 Camaro ecu takes car of the rest when the car is not under boost.
since you have an 86 camaro ecu/harness- the 034 piggyback is not necessarily needed. You can take the stock gm tpi harness and prom tune it to run bigger engines/forced induction. The forced induction i'd stay relatively low boost on though. If you want to go higher boost, then buy a factory turbo ecu from the syclone/typhoon. They are map sensor based-- not mass air flow sensor. The turbo grand nationals use a totally different ecu setup.

A lot of aftermarket efi's run gm sensors. It is almost redundant to buy some companies efi because it is nothing more than gm's efi repackaged. Check this software out-- TunerPro and TunerPro RT - Professional Automobile Tuning Software that's what i use for gm ecus chip burning. Whats nice is the burner you can use on other chips. I use it to burn porsche 944 turbo chips as well. just use a different program.
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post #90 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 12:03 PM
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forgot to mention-- using the tuner pro software above- you can essentially take a 8 cyl ecu, go inside it and tell it that it is a 6 or 4 cylinder ecu. So if you are fortunate enough to be able to get a harness, ecu, and all sensors-- you basically have the doings for a programmable efi. Best part is you can get everything from a pick and pull for dirt cheap-- under 200. New ecus themselves are relatively cheap from any auto parts store too.
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