V8 swap into I6 280SE W108 - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by UCF21 View Post
Like I said before, I have them laying around doing a whole lot of nothing, and I want something dead reliable and smooth with decent power. And I can't justify spending much on this project. Some time is ok, but money no. I actually have a more serious engine transplant pending on a different vehicle that I will end up spending too much money on, so I don't want to be recklessly wasting money on a project car that doesn't really have much purpose for me. I could just as soon part this car out, but it would be a shame and a waste since the rest of the car is so clean. Plus my uncle that gave it to me might kill me.

This benz is way broken, the motor is toast, it'll cost money to rebuild it as is, and constantly more money to keep it that way. That doesn't really work for me.

Maybe you don't have rodders' blood or see any reason for doing something unorthodox (but not completely idiotic), but there are plenty that do and can appreciate it. Overcoming barriers with ingenuity and engineering has returns of satisfaction that money cannot buy.

Who knows I may paint myself into a corner and have to give up if it ends up being overly too much work, but at least I tried, and I'll learn more stuff along the way.

Turn the benz into a drift car and slap a 2JZ-GTE motor. That would be nice .

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post #32 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Now that would be something unappreciated by anybody from either side haha

I prefer drag cars myself if anything
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post #33 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 09:23 PM
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V8 in a 108 Mercedes

Many years ago, I put a mildly built 351 Ford Windsor into a 66 250SE. It took time but it wasn't terribly difficult. The biggest challenge is the exhaust system. There is very little room on both sides of the motor, if i remember correctly, the passenger side is the worst. The tight areas are around the steering components. I used cast iron manifolds (budget constraints, I was 23). This swap wouldn't be so bad if you can fabricate headers.

I used a small block C6 and it required the transmission tunnel to be stretched in strategic locations. The transmission mount is an easy fab using piece of channel iron. The stock Mercedes floor shifter can be reworked to shift the ford transmission.

And before anybody rants about a Ford in a Mercedes, here are the reasons I did it. Motor build cost, its different, its fun, cheaper and simpler to fix, nobody else has one, did I mention that is was fun?

Pictures are here: http://sites.google.com/site/galenpowers/galenpowers
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post #34 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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That's pretty awesome! And yeah the basis for that motor is just the cost and maintenance issues. Especially so if the car is worth nothing broken, and not worth a whole lot even if it was perfect. Just all in good fun.

I wonder if a C4 would have been a better fit? I'm not sure the difference between the C6 and C4 physically. The domestic bellhousings are usually pretty big though, compared to most of the import ones, at least comparing V8 to V8.

Do you think a 302 would have been easier or maybe even harder due to exhaust manifold positioning? Luckily this Lexus motor has pseudo shorty header type manifolds, so in a quick fix I can chop off the collector and reposition it. I'm sure it won't hurt the given power output much if any.

I think your choice of stock manifolds was still quite ok, since you were not going for all out power anyways. Less problems and more quiet too
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post #35 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:01 AM
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Mercedes v8 swap

A C4 would have been easier, the bell housing was no problem. The issue was a couple of bumps on the body of the transmission. It was a 15 minute job with a small sledge hammer to stretch a couple of spots. It wasnt as bad as it sounds.

The exhaust issue was mainly trying to clear the idler arm as I remember. This was also caused by trying to keep the motor back against the firewall to help the front to rear weight balance.

The drive shaft was spliced (Ford to Mercedes) Stock Mercedes rear end worked fine.

I would like to do another one of these someday.
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post #36 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 12:51 PM
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No problem

The costs are one aspect, the last 30 years with classic cars teached me that several times it is better to spend a little more and have five times more after. So when you offer an perfekt functioning 280 SE with 560 oder M112 you can sell it well, with other engines? If it is for the pleasure to do, why not, do it!
In any case, high engine performance need brake and suspension upgrade. I will say over 200hp the standart suspension is on the limit and the 273 mm discs, too. With airsuspension (stiftend) it will go up to 320hp (AMG stage 2 6.8) with liddle mods and ventilated frontbrakes (better 300 mm rotors from the W126 and hubmods).
That's a european point of view, but good brakes and handling is save and fun.
Which type of EFI will you use? The Lexus has vario-cams? The tranny functions with pressure regulation or eletronic programm? If you have all the original eletronics so the only problem will be the ABS/ASR Sensoring.

I have seen some times ago the projekt with the Lexus engine, like every type of mods on this chassis it was interesting to see. Like I tried ones to put the M119 but it is to large (7 cm), the M120 will work better.

Best Pagodino
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post #37 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 01:24 PM
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Mercedes engine swap

Pagodino makes a good point about not screwing up a valuable car but a dead 280 isn't exactly a collector car.
If you are planning on keeping the car after the swap its not so bad. If you plan on selling it, that could be another matter all together.
One more thing to keep in mind is that you may be able to get some money out of the Mercedes engine and transmission even if the engine is dead. I sold the motor to a guy who needed the mechanical fuel injection for a fishing boat.
As far as horsepower goes, the motor in the car pictured above made about 325hp and behaved very well with stock brakes, and rear end. Granted it isn't the best braking system but when compared to domestic cars from the same era, the benz will stop much quicker with the v8 in it even with stock brakes
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post #38 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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I agree, if the car was truly worth something I wouldn't do this. But it's worth about 1000 or less as is, probably around 4000 parted out at most but after wasting ungodly hours hustling and disassembling. Plus if I do either, I will have absolutely no chance at having anything to do with the 20k mile '67 912 that was stored also since '88 next to this car Selling price after? Honestly I doubt it would be worth significantly more or less with the different engine vs. OEM. Factory five seems to have no problem with random engines in their cars LOL And those aren't even a genuine car

But yeah, I'm just selling off what I can from the engine/trans, I figure I'll get back maybe 1500 total, which is not bad and should cover the out of pocket to get this thing going.

For the electronics, don't worry trust me I can handle that without an issue, and the ABS functions are completely unrelated to the engine.

So was the stock radiator adequate for the 351? I was told that this car even when it was new was marginal for cooling, they said sometimes they remembered even just sitting at a light in the summer the gauge would creep up some.
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post #39 of 162 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 01:51 PM
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One thing I liked about the 302 windsor was it was so simple. A carb, an alternator, and one vacuum line to the dizzy. The MB motors have pollution junk, vacuum lines and fuel injection switches all over it. I would hate to pull it apart to paint the block.

$1500 for bits of engine and trans sounds high compared to Oz. I have bought several running sixes in Oz for around $500. A mate got a running M110 with a 1 year old trans for $182 on ebay 2 weeks ago!

I wish I had your proficiency with wiring UCF. This is the first time I have done a cars wiring, so I bascially know nothing about how a car works. Now I have wiring diagrams for a finny, W108 and W116 and am trying to figure out what stays, what goes, and then where it should go - have spent 3 days coming to grips with it all without actually doing anything as yet. But I almost have my strategy sorted so today the grafting will commence. If I was doing a 302 windsor, I would have finished on day 1!

As for markets for 108's, in Australia some of the young lowriders are getting into them, so modifications aren't a problem. And I think once people learn how poor the fuel economy is on the standard cars, getting some aural pleasure from a V8 whilst tipping in lots of $ for petrol is at least some compensation!
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post #40 of 162 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 11:41 PM
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The 108 wiring harness isn't too awfully tough to demystify, especially if you're taking out the engine and replacing it with somehting more simple. The harness feeding the injectors, sensors and computer all come out as one large hunk, leaving wiring for lights, radio, blower motor, etc intact.
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