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24V Starter Relay for FLU419?

6K views 18 replies 6 participants last post by  The FLU farm 
#1 ·
Any idea where I can get a 24 volt starter relay for a FLU419 Unimog? Also, I need a power steering V-belt, but have no idea of the part number and the old one is nowhere to be found. Any help getting my Mog on the road would surely be appreciated.

Will
 
#3 ·
Start by downloading the manuals, guides, and part list. It's thousands of pages, but filled with the information you will need.

TM-5-2420-224-10-HR - Hand Receipt
TM-5-2420-224-10 - Operators Manual
TM-5-2420-224-14 - Transportation Guide
TM-5-2420-224-20-1 - Technical Manual Vol 1 (note there are at least 3 revisions of this)
TM-5-2420-224-20-2 - Technical Manual Vol 2 (note there are at least 3 revisions of this)
TM-5-2420-224-24P-1 - Parts & Tools Manual Vol 1
TM-5-2420-224-24P-2 - Parts & Tools Manual Vol 2
TM-5-2420-224-34 - Repair Manual

Then start researching the part. You will first need to learn "the Army way" of categorizing things. Then get a basic understanding of the NSN and cage codes. Every part has an NSN number (National Supply Number... or NATO Supply Number, depending on which side of the pond you are on) that tells you the general part category (Federal Supply Group and Class), the originating country, and the item identification number. From there, you can look up the NSN to find one or more cage codes (manufacturer/supplier ID codes) and the manufacturer part number that equates to the NSN.

So you start by going in the parts manual and finding the starter relays (there are actually two in the circuit, you have to reference a completely separate electrical schematic to find that...), which appear in diagram# 57, part# 24. The part listing tells you that is NSN# 5945-01-251-8699, with a primary cage code of 64678 (Daimler Trucks) and part number of 002-545-66-05 (just a MB part number). From there you can cross-reference the NSN to find additional parts like Bosch 0332209211. But it's really just a pretty standard auto format base relay with a 24V coil.

The steering pump belt is part# 35 of diagram# 176 in the parts manual, which shows as NSN# 3030-01-247-3224, cage code 24161 (Gates Corp), manufacturer# 9365... which is a standard Gates XL 1/2"x36-1/2" belt. Further researching the NSN, you can find a wide range of alternate manufacturer parts including:
Daimler 0059970992
Dayco 17365
Parker-Hannifin 42-2340
Optibelt AVX13X925LA

Note that NSNs and manufacturer number can and will be found to be invalid or missing/with additional digits. So there are frequently cases of multiple slightly-different part numbers for the same item.
 
#4 ·
I fully agree with Choprboys advice. No need to burn out a printer, the manuals are electronically indexed and are lot easier to use on a laptop. The Control F function on the Adobe PDF reader really helps. If you want to print one out, print out the operators manual and go through it page by page. It is very important to go through the vehicle inspection and lubrication section. Even if you bought it from someone who claims to be an expert and has gone through it, there are lot of places where you need to grease that probably hasn't been touched for years. At least one hard to get to one on the transmission requires deploying the backhoe to get to the fitting. Same with adding fluids. Don't skip in a rush to play with it.

If you ended up with one of the auction vehicles out of the Red River Army Depot in Texas (GP planet auctions), check all the electrical functions. There is a fairly high incidence of rodent damage to the wiring harness that is not readily apparent unless you know where to look. The rats nest in the harness behind the dash and when they do, they gnaw through the harness. The rig may have run with this damage in place but it may not depending on how much damage there is.

Do yourself a favor and see if the hydraulic cooling fans will spin by hand (use a stick through the grilles), if they don't turn or turn hard, odds are water leaked into the motors and they are trashed. It happens frequently. It can lead to a lot of mysterious electrical issues at the back of the SEE. In the short term just disconnect them.

If you have few hours, there is very long thread on SEEs on Steel Soldiers. Choprboy had posted a collection of US Military technical tips on SEEs previously on this forum . I bound them together in a PDF file and indexed them to make them easer to locate, many are repetitive but worth going through them. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...om-PS-Magazine-Maintenance-and-Operating-tips

Just in case you haven't found the stash of manuals Choprboy referenced they are in this link (as well as other places) https://support.expeditionimports.com/hc/en-us/articles/217428987-SEE-FLU419-HMMH-PDF-Manuals. EI does have big inventory of SEE parts. Unfortunately there isn't an electrical wiring diagram for download but there is section on electrical diagnosis in the manuals that may be helpful.

With respect to the NSN numbers and the Mercedes part numbers, they are very handy as on occasion if you search for them the parts will show up on Ebay. Be aware that there are lot of firms that look official that will pop up when you search for NSN numbers, they frequently will have the parts listed but they appear to be middleman that just try to order the parts from Mercedes and mark it up.
 
#5 ·
Choprboy, Peakbagger and Pcoffee,

Thanks a million for the information.

Choprboy, I was able to duplicate your search for the power steering belt, but true to Peakbagger's comment I was unable to locate the electrical schematic to find the starter relays.

Anyway, thanks for the part numbers. I ordered both items off ebay so the FLU419 should be in operation soon.

Thanks also for the advice on the hydraulic cooling fans. I will check to see if the motors are frozen up.

Will
 
#8 ·
As Peakbagger and FLUFarm noted, there are 2 separate places to look. The first is the Technical Manual Vol1, starting under the diagnostics on page 3-70 "Engine Will Not Crank". Getting down to step# 13 on page 3-74, it goes into testing the 2 starter relays, with a starter wiring diagram on page 3-77.

Now you get to the unfortunate problem... there is no comprehensive electrical wiring diagram in the Technical Manuals. There are little bits of the system diagram scattered through, but nothing in one place. For that, there is a separate wiring diagram wall chart, NSN# 7610-01-475-7996, part# GOV-041. Several came out on the surplus market a few months ago, but only a handful.
 
#9 ·
I think I was the "lucky" person who first posted about rat damage on the wiring harness as mine was purchased prior to the big flood of SEEs that occurred in the last year. Mine appears to have been eaten by a "civilian rat" rather then the military rats that reside at the Red River Depot;). It did start and run. I had 21 gnawed off wires (42 ends) and several partially gnawed wires. I wished and hoped for a copy of the wiring diagram but in the end traced out all the circuits using the electrical diagnostics section of the manuals. What I really would have wanted was pin diagrams of each electrical connector and maybe a connector location diagram (which are not on the wiring diagram). The wires are all black and the only way to identify specific wires is to locate the correct connector, carefully clean off the wires and with a magnifying lens read the white number on the wire as it leaves the connector. Even with care not all the numbers are legible but by combing the diagnostics manual I did get everything hooked back up. I had the manuals on my laptop and used the control F function on Adobe Acrobat to search for wire numbers, frequently I would find a pin sketch for a connector on an unrelated electrical diagnostic procedure. I do find the procedure are pretty comprehensive and repeat the manuals warning not to skip steps. The other thing to realize is the only way to really diagnose the electrical system is to take out the ductwork behind the dash and remove all the gauges to get at the electrical connectors.

Some folks have advocated starting from scratch and just rewiring critical systems, I expect that that approach is an exercise in futility and will lead to a rig that at best might run with many systems non functional but far more likely an expensive abandoned project. At some point maybe the owner will admit they ruined it and part it out.
 
#11 ·
I think I was the "lucky" person who first posted about rat damage on the wiring harness as mine was purchased prior to the big flood of SEEs that occurred in the last year. Mine appears to have been eaten by a "civilian rat" rather then the military rats that reside at the Red River Depot;). It did start and run. I had 21 gnawed off wires (42 ends) and several partially gnawed wires.
I don't know how you (and the others who faced this issue) pulled it off. Sounds like awful work, and lots of it.
On the other hand, I don't think it would be that big of a deal to rewire a FLU from scratch. Especially if eliminating (to me) useless features such as the diagnostic part, most indicator lights, blackout lights, headlights, etc.
 
#10 ·
Do the SEE tractors take an american or metric profile V-Belt? I thought there were XPA profile belts.

C.
 
#12 ·
If someone just wants a strictly off road tractor with minimal lights I agree with you. Mine started and ran even with most of the harness behind the dash gnawed in two. On the other hand its no where near the work that would be required to rewire from scratch and even have basic functionality. I expect that anyone who did that has effectively removed a lot of the market value for the SEE. If on other hand you have use for a parts SEE then its one step closer.

The good side or going through the hassle with the wiring is I understand a lot more of the systems.
 
#13 ·
Yes, learning the system is a very good thing. It's just that there's more of it than I'm willing to learn about.
To me the FLUs are working machines, not something I bought to travel pavement with, so a functional work light or two in each end is all I need, should darkness come before I'm done. Oh, and dash lights are helpful, too, to keep track of the wellbeing of things. And the wipers, heated windshield, and heater are nice to have.

As far as indicator lights and such go, I see no need for them. It's bad enough that my pickup tells me that I opened the door. If I pulled the PTO lever, turned on 4WD, or something similar, I really shouldn't need a light to tell me that I did.
And if I do, I think that I have no business operating that machine.

Never did give market value much thought. Okay, none. I modify my SEEs as "needed", to make them work better for me.
Although, I keep the mods (if any)easily reversible on the more rare FLU variants. It just seems wrong to change those around.

These are, of course, my personal and opinionated views. And as you know, peakbagger, I'm not a fan of buing a SEE, for example, only to turn it into a basic Unimog by removing it's main features. I know why people do it, but that doesn't mean I like it.
At the risk of upsetting most everybody here, I should mention that I bought work-machines, which happened to have Unimogs holding the implements on. But now that I have them, I must admit that the quirkyness of the FLUs has me spellbound.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox, let the hate mail begin.
 
#14 ·
Ahh, yes I found the Electrical Troubleshooting section. The location of the two relays, and the wiring diagram on Page 3-77 are a big help.

The next challenge will be to figure out why all wheel drive is not engaging. Page 3-266 in the Tech Manual Vol. 1 helps, but doesn't quite get me there. I hope I don't have to lift the cab.
 
#17 ·
By the way, since you are an admitted newby to 419s (as am I), there is a high likelihood that your air system is full of crap carried over from possibly a damaged alcohol injector tank, or a internally rotting out air line that runs from the air pressure regulator on the passenger side rear to the air tanks on the drivers side. This air eventually makes it to the 4wd cylinder after it has gone through numerous regulators and fittings that all could be crapped up. Ideally start at the air pressure regulator and change the air line (unless it has already been switched to stainless or Cu Ni) and then start cleaning things out. Its going to make getting everything up to snuff a lot easier in the long run. If you reach a point where thing look clean possibly after the air tanks then you may be good to go.
 
#18 ·
Peakbagger, I will plan on replacing that air line from the regulator to the air tank(s). These machines look to be fundamentally sound, but with a lot of systems that just need periodic maintenance. I will also invest in a mouse trap to keep on the floorboard :)
 
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