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Odyssey vs Sears DieHard Platinum vs Optima

21K views 121 replies 28 participants last post by  Ursus585 
#1 ·
Seems the optimas that came with my truck bit the dust yesterday. Weird, they worked, then they didnt. Took it out for a relatively bouncy 4wd jaunt, worked fine the next day, the day after that, would barely turn the engine, solenoid not engaging. It started fine, I ran it for 5 minutes to move it, and then 30 minutes later, wouldnt start. Charged both fully, starts a little better, but still struggling mightily. Leaves me wondering if my suspected ring gear/starter issue was actually the first harbinger of batteries saying c'est la vie'?

Our build is intended for 1.5 years relatively off grid through central and south america, so I wanted to replace them anyways.

Seems after searching for a bit that the sears die hard platinum would be a good choice for our trip. Any followup thoughts from the last round of threads on those using them? I have a source for all three relatively close to home, and dont really care about price within reason (If I'm getting more reliability).

I have the AV updated battery box (placed when we got their fuel tank), in terms of sizing.

I was thinking about getting two of these (but havent measured for fit yet).

DieHard Marine Battery : Buy High-Performance Battery at Sears

-Scott and Heather
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Hi Scott,

Did you measure battery voltage while attempting to crank your U1300? Is there a possibility the batteries held their voltage ok but the starter is not working correctly? I ask that because your description of apparent battery failure is similar to a starting problem I had. One time the truck would start fine, another time the batteries seemed dead.

I found that the original U1300 starter returns the ground from the brushes through the thin mount that holds the brushes. That mount is held in place by only a few small screws. The screws were loose and arcing. This is internal to the starter. The arcing rendered the mounting plate unusable or rebuildable. I replaced the starter and have had no further problems.

If the battery voltage does not drop below about 18 - 20 volts when starter is engaged, your batteries might be ok. A simple test is to turn on the headlights and see if they go OFF when cranking. If they do go out then you have a bad battery or a high resistance somewhere. If the headlights stay reasonably strong then the batteries are ok.

BTW, Optima AGM batteries often require higher charge voltage than regular SLA or flooded lead batteries. Most simple battery chargers do not put enough voltage into them to top them up. It might take 16 or 17 volts on a 12 v Optima to equalize the cells. If your charger has an ampmeter, you can do AH calculation to know if you put full charge in the battery(s).

Bob
 
#3 ·
I don't know if this is true, but I have heard rumors that the Optima line has been re-designed recently and are nowhere NEAR as good as they once were. Since I believe you still pay a hefty premium for them, it's something to investigate. I have a Optima Yellow in my Rover that is over 10 yrs old and still good. it would be a shame if they screwed them up.

Float voltage of flooded (liquid electrolyte) battery cells are 0.04V lower per cell then AGM batteries. That is 0.2V in a standard 6-cell 12V battery.
 
#4 ·
Plain old Walmart maxx batteries are bullet proof. I have found them to be 100% reliable so long as they are maintained. Plus they are covered under a great warranty that seems to cover even the stupidest stuff. Buddy of mine drove over one of his and got it covered under warranty. I use these in everything I own without fail.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Story time with me drinking ESB beer. I had an optima in my 72 Blazer and the hold down broke while playing. The battery bounced out of the tray and rested against the pulley and rubbed a hole through the case. Worked fine for another 2 years.
Fast forward 4 years and I have had two Optima batteries fail since then.
I bought an Odyssey and it failed because the first Unimog had serious wiring problems and it would go dead all of the time. I charged it with a normal charger all the time and the battery turned to junk. I called Odyssey and they were actually awesome! They replaced the battery for free and told me that if I charge the next one with a normal charger I would not receive a replacement. They said if you put more than 15.5 volts into the battery it will cause premature failure. So hearing that I did due diligence and researched the heck out of battery chargers and after consulting with someone I consider a lot smarter in batteries and chargers I purchased the charger made by Odyssey. The person I consulted with put a thermal recorder on the battery and it did not get hot like a normal charger did to a battery.

What was the question regular or AGM? Depends on how you take care of both of them!
 
#7 ·
Scott,
The U1300L has some funny ground issues. Sounds like my truck when I first had it. The issue would come and go, but it was not until I cleaned and retightened all of the ground connections on the truck that it went away.

C.
 
#8 ·
Sorry for the newbie question, but I'm not sure where the ground connections are? It was on my to do list for tomorrow. Id already gone through and cleaned all of the electrical connections at the batteries and starter, but knew I hadn't tackled the ground issues yet. Any advice on where to find and clean appreciated.
 
#9 ·
I would clean the following points to start:

1. Main chassis ground, on the frame behind the battery box.

2. Engine ground. Braided cable from frame to starter.

3. Cab grounds. On on each side of the engine compartment in the left and right firewall. Another on the rear of the engine compartment near the main electrical block connection.

Those are a good place to start.

C.
 
#13 ·
Okay, I might have kicked the car for the first time this morning, and I dont want our relationship to be that way ;) Loosing my mind with this starter issue just a little, little bit ;)

I wanted to place new batteries anyways, so I bought some nice, 900 CCA diehard platinums. I also cleaned thoroughly every ground attachment point on the vehicle, and I mean thoroughly. Hooked the new batteries in this morning with christmas dreams of trouble free starts, and........problem not solved.

Here is what it does. When I turned the key this morning, about 60f/15.5c, the starter groaned, turned slowly once, turned a little less slowly, then again. I stopped and tried again. This time, it sounded like the solenoid didnt engage, and the pinion just whirred with no engine engagement. Then I did it again, and this time, it slowly turned a few times, then finally kicked in. For all intents and purposes, it sounded like a weak battery to the novice mog electrician in me.

I let it run for five minutes, and then stopeed and tried again, and it turned slightly better. I did it once more, and even better. Stopped for a while, and its slow to turn again.

It is certainly acting like its not seeing current at the starter, though Im not sure how this could be. Its a reconditioned starter that I just put in the vehicle a few weeks ago, its only seen 20-30 cranks. I have the original starter. The only issue I can see based on Tmoddler's suggestion is that the braided cable goes from the left most screw on the solenoid run into main starter body, but not the engine. Im guessing that grounds through the back of the starter where it screws into the bell housing?

Any thoughts on how to further trouble shoot this thing? We are leaving on a test run on the 30th for 10 days down the coast of surfing and figuring out what features we want in a camper, so Id really like to get it up to speed by then.

In terms of ruling out the braided cable ground issue, Id thought about running a jumper from that to the chassis ground in back to see if it might be something there?

-S
 

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#11 · (Edited)
There's no mention as to the applicability of using marine batteries as this is what I extrapolate from the OP ? My understanding is marine batteries are intended for applications where the the battery is regularly drawn down and recharged. I opt for the largest rated CCA that will fit.In the middle of nowhere good batts are priceless. My first optima lasted ten years, new ones not sure I have three of them. T modeler has good advice you may be lacking a fine connection! Many components have been replaced before the real culprit is found. Banter I replaced my starter when I was sixteen when my first car date was derailed when the car wouldn't restart after the ball game. Following day went to parking lot changed starter and determined it was merely a low battery and poor connections. Good luck familiarize yourself with the system.
 
#12 ·
Check the Specs

Marine batteries are not the best choice for automotive application. They are designed for deep discharge and do not do well on "float" as an auto battery. They will hold max voltage for a long time then drop precipitously with little warning. Charge times are longer and life is shortened on float.

IRT charging the Optima, a standard charger for lead-acid batteries doe not work well for an AGM battery. You need one designed for those batteries. Are you using Dad's old charger?
 
#16 ·
Mine plugs into my multimeter but you can get separate ones for not to expensive.

After cranking and it's really slow, like a low battery, any of the cables really hot? Battery cables, starter cables?

If you have a multimeter you can plug it into a 12v source, and check your current drop and recovery while cranking and immediately after. I've seen batteries read good (12.7v or so) with a surface charge, then tank as soon as a load is put on. A local shop should be able to preform an AVR test as well, make sure everything in the charging system is up to snuff.
 
#17 ·
I took it into a local shop thats not familiar with MOGs, but pretty solid overall. Im guessing this isnt a MOG specific issue at this point. We found the engine strap which I hadnt seen before, and It looked to be in bad shape. Hoping its that, but I was feeling over my head to get this figured out in two days with limited electrical experience. Will let you know the verdict as soon as it comes in.
 
#18 ·
Years ago, my truck was going through batterys every year. 4 at a time.
Rebuilt starters, a new starter, same issue as yours.
Cleaned all grounds, cleaned all hot sides (POS), then we found the culprit.

Bad battery wires. They looked good at the ends, but the insulation covered the corrosion away from the connectors. Only a few stands inside was delivering the current and the insulation held it altogether.

Something to consider other than load testing each battery independently. The starter can still be the issue.
 
#19 ·
I was looking at getting the Diehard Platinum Marine PM-1 for my 416. Here it is

I would like to have an inverter for accessories and emergencies, but I'm concerned that the stock 35amp alternator won't properly charge it. Any thoughts on that?

I went out and tested my battery at 12.57V open, then when running the alternator brought it right up to 14.6V, which is right at the top of the optimal range for the Diehard.
 
#21 ·
I just picked up the Diehard Platinum 31m. What a change. I noticed that the only battery chargers recommended by Odyssey are 50A rated. The alternator in the 416 is just the 35A so I think I will be upgrading that soon!! I also noticed that at idle with the lights on my voltage was at 13.6V which is outside the recommended 14-14.8V charge range. Without the lights on I was at 14.2V @ 800rpm.

It was 40deg F today and it spun the engine over real fast. I'll do some more testing with colder temps and report out.
 
#25 ·
#28 ·
the stock designed components when working properly are just fine. unless you have some giant electric load, such as sports stadium driving lights. (to prevent "outdriving" the headlights at mog speed) while under way, my truck charging system powers a 24-12 charger for the camper batteries. good batteries in good condition, clean connections = bobs your uncle.
 
#32 ·
I'm concerned with battery life on the Diehard Platinum as I think they need a modern high current alternator to properly charge. I have a question into Odyssey so we'll see what they have to say about it. I would also like to have a 1kw inverter on the truck at some point.
 
#30 ·
And Kris, my wench is electric (my truck is 12v too), so dragging a 416 from a nasty place puts a huge load on my batts and I need the juice restored pronto. Not to mention that amazing sound system (not talking about the drone of the diesel!)

I have been told by Jason Couch that the sock alternator is superior to any other kind - I'll ask him again why that is and post up here. I think it related to something Coach said though...
 
#34 ·
Modern Bosch units made for pretty much ANY vehicle have 2-3X the output capability at rated RPM compared to the anemic stock Mog units. Aftermarket units are even better. The problem with diesel Mogs is in matching the tach signal, if you need a tach signal...

Whether you NEED 2-3X the output depends on your current demand. My truck has only a moderate need vs stock. Upgraded modern headlights, two large trail lights and medium power communications gear. I'm more interested in keeping the 4D battery topped off in case I need to do a lot of starts in a short time. But, my OM352 usually starts the first time an injector fires :)

I have a 190A alternator in my Rover because it has a electric winch. My Mog winch is PTO powered...
 
#39 ·
The idle RPM of the alternator is much higher than engine idle speed and is merely a ratio of the crank diameter to the alternator pulley diameter. So if the crank diameter is 6 inches and the Alt pulley diameter is 2 inches (6/2=3), then at idle 500rpm,the alt is moving at 1500rpm...factor 3.

I believe this one will do well at engine idle.
 
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