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406/416 fiberglass cab survey,long or short?

12K views 52 replies 24 participants last post by  myunimog 
#1 · (Edited)
We are trying to get a feel for potential fiberglass cab owners out there as to what they would be interested in. We are trying to assess if the standard cab is one to offer for a replacement for a rusted out cab.
The Doka is what everyone seems to want,but an extended cab is really nice in the trees compaired to the four door.
If the modular thing works out all three or more cab lengths my be accommodated ,but if not are there people looking for a standard or even 4"longer than stock?

Don't worry the Dokas will happen...

Couch Off-Road Engineering
 
#3 ·
FWIW, to accommodate an extended cab wouldn't you just attach the rear wall to the back of the B pillar? Thus 2/3 of the doka jig becomes the extended cab pattern? If it were my project I would offer a heavy single or the full doka if it's the matter of 4 or so inches.
 
#6 ·
you know, this might work even better. Have the front door separate piece, have the rear bolt on, the rear door a separate section. That way, with the same mould, you can make a 2 door, 4 door or 6 door. it would be 3 pieces, but easier to make. repaie would be easier. broke a section, replace that only.

so rear panel + front door = regular cab.
rear panel + rear door +front door= doka
rear panel + rear door +read door+front door =6door.

if the panels bolt together with say 30 bolts, it's good. make the hood separate yet again, and even better to replace if damaged. less complicated to make.
 
#7 ·
you know, this might work even better. Have the front door separate piece, have the rear bolt on, the rear door a separate section. That way, with the same mould, you can make a 2 door, 4 door or 6 door. it would be 3 pieces, but easier to make. repaie would be easier. broke a section, replace that only. ...
Would say Im on the same wave length as you... but the truth is..... we are on the same wave length as Ma Benze. This is how the U500 works. Their modular pieces glue on. Would assume the back wall of cab has a large removable (cut it out) pass thru that you take out before attaching next section.



 
#9 ·
Jay I would like it if you could make me a fiberglass dog house. I dont want any sound insulation or anything special like that, just and simple, not too expensive and light so I can get quick access to my engine without me having to drag my heavy doghouse over my nice seats. PM me if you are making any (The lighter the better and again please no sound insulation.)
 
#10 ·
I think from a 'bang for your buck' sellers perspective, a true doka would be the way to go. yes its more mold work/material/labor...but you could charge a pretty decent price for a complete fiberglass one.
It's seems now a days that everyone and his dog wants a doka. I have a 404.1 doka and its great, but the major pitfall is that it really cuts into the bed. A 6'6" bed just kinda sucks for the most part, I could not imagine having one of those tiny Doka beds found on the 406.
If there was a way for you to do the 'extra' cab versions, I think this would become very popular with the Mog crowd. No more smashed elbows, room for your gear and just a little more comfort all round.
One thing you might look into is if you have a stretched cab how that will eat into you box hinge points and hydraulics in general (ram). Would it be easier on the other components to stretch only 14" rather than say 16". You get the jist.
I wonder if a standard cab out of glass is really worth it? If you could do the hood/doors/roofs that's one thing. Now a days you can buy a some of the replacement parts made from metal (rain gutters/floorpans come to mind), if you could fill the niche of the other parts, then the mog owner only has assemble (if only it were that easy).
As far as a 6door, to me thats just silly!

G Vavra
 
#11 ·
I think from a units sold perspective that a single cab would be your best seller. I know everyone WANTS a Doka or streched cab, but how many people are actually going to have the time/ money/ skills to shorten the bed (and sometimes the subframe for the bed) and to install a rear cab mount, ect? There is a lot more that goes into making a DoKa out of a single cab than just ploping on a new cab (I know you know this Jason, but just throwing it out there if you didn't think about it), you need the hardware for the rear doors, interior stuff, paint, ect to finish it out not to mention the bed issues, so by the time everything is said and done, you may end up with another $3K-5K or more invested, on top of the cost of the fiberglass cab and doors. As far as a single cab, if it could made so that it could be sold for $3-4K, I think you could probably sell at least twice, if not more units than the DoKa or extended cab. Just food for thought.

Cheers,
Ben
 
#12 ·
Snow Mogg or anybody else for that matter,
I have a mold to make dog houses if you know how to do your own fiberglass layups, it was made by Bob Dupuy awhile back. I'd be happy to send it to you if you pay for the shipping and what ever customs hirdles that may come up.
Rick
 
#14 ·
It seems to me that having a modular system would really be the way to go. Bolting the rear end of the cab on would afford easy camper conversions for example. You're going to have seams in whatever molded part you end up joining together anyway, might as well put them in a location that allows flexibility.

Also, fabricating the mold in modular sections would allow the ability to build a very strong boxed steel structure to reduce cabin crushing. Like an integral rollbar. When bolting on a "doka-expansion" it would just sandwich between the front half and rear half of the cab. Obviously you don't want to get too far away from a factory setup so it's a bolt on.

The concept that it would be difficult to chop beds/extend framerails is false in my opinion. If you're replacing the entire cab with a fiberglass box, you're going to be skilled enough to weld on some frame extensions to the end or make the bed shorter.
 
#16 ·
Von has put alot of work into a Fiber cab too. Not sure what would be best for the customer or Jason and Von; a cooperation or partnership on this project between the two, or two completely separate biz's competing. ???

Thanks to both Von and Jason for looking into fiber cabs, extensions and other parts. May it work out well for Moggers and both of you rather it be a joint venture or not.
 
#17 ·
This will be the same issue Von ran into - everyone wants this or that or "hey I want one but make it like this just for me" etc.
I hope it can work as it would be a major benefit for the Mog community!
Personally, I would like to see a Doka but I agree with Merz-Ben - everyone "wants" a Doka but singles would sell best, be easy to install vs adding a Doka and would be a nice replacement for a rotting cab.
My 2 cents worth.
 
#18 ·
Well,
We all think it would be cool but how many people would part with the money?? I see mogs on the exchange and ebay that do not sell at $8,000-15,000. How many rusty but everything else is perfect Mogs are out there? Who is willing to buy a $5,000 Mog, buy a $4,000 cab, spend $2,000 on paint and everything else and 800 hours of your own time refinishing and rebuilding your chassis, suspension, brakes, motor, Trans, portals, differentials and everything else. Then fitting the cab painting it and assembling it.

If you have never restored a car or truck you might want to talk to some people who have.
Back in my other life I used to restore, from the ground up, 2 Mid-Year corvettes a year that was about 8 hours a night 4 days a week.
So I guess what I am saying is that the unless you have a lot of time (this is not something you can do in a weekend), a place to do it (without pissing the wife off) including paint, and shitload of tools. do not cast you vote that you want one.

One side note would be... If you have the money to pay Von or Jason to do it for you. Or will Von or Jason offer complete units pre-built for sale? How many people will pay $30,000 min. for a done Mog???????

So... Jason and Von want this to happen but probably know that firm orders for cabs will be hard to come by. My guess (with limited business experience) says payback on this project would be about 6-10 years. So fellow Moggers who will step up to the plate? and who is a blowing wind out their ass?
I have found out one thing owning a corvette parts business... owners of Corvettes are cheap fucks. I wonder how Mog owners are?

I am off the soap box.
 
#20 · (Edited)
First and foremost I should say that it would be a VERY long time before I could see anything like this in my possession (If ever), but that being said my thoughts are...

I love that yall are making cabs, it sounds like a great idea. I wonder what the price difference would be if you went with the extended cab vs the regular cab.

I think that merz-Ben has a very valid point. I also wonder if anyone would really care if they did not make the regular cab at all. The only reason I say that is because the cabs tend to be very small inside, so, a little extra space never hurt anyone, right? Would extending the cab by only 6" require a change to the mounting set-up? I do not know, but it is a thought.

Now, I realize that in my ignorance I may have missed something, like the ability for a 6" longer cab to work with the existing bed, but that is my thought. Personally I am 6'5 and I would love to have the leg room.

By the way, have you ever given thought to just making a hard top for the soft top mogs out there and seeing how that goes first?
 
#22 ·
Mr. Bills knows what he is talking about.
My average bill for lightly going through a Mog and cleaning up the loose ends to make it pretty reliable is between $3800-$5500, and that's on a pretty nice 406/416 to start w/.

We are thinking a 4" longer standard cab would work out pretty well on even a Case Mog if you'd flip the ROPS front to back and notched out the deck to clear it. Unfortunately this would interfere w/ a Euro Mog w/ the dump bed up close.

The modular concept is definitely the one we are aiming towards.

There will be a sub frame for the lower portion of the cab,but to do the upper portion that I believe to be very beneficial will easily ad another $1200-$1600 to the overall price. We could maybe offer this as an option,but it would really trouble me if the buyer didn't get this addition. I don't even want to hear about liability issues I've got enough headaches right now.

Good to get the feedback!
Jay
Couch Off-Road | Equipment Builds and Service for Unimog | Denver Colorado
 
#23 · (Edited)
I think most are thinking along the same lines but here is my 2 cents on the idea.

Start with a 417 style base cab that already looks like the top should unbolt from the bottom and has a grill with more air flow for cooling and you don't have to deal with headlights in the cab. Incorporate a bolt on removable top and rear section of standard length and height. From the base platform it would be reasonably easy to bolt on a hard top. Then for off roading or summer use have a soft top configuration with a lower height that folds down and could utilize an aftermarket 406 top already in production. Include some hard interior steel threaded attachment points for those who want a roll cage. The removable rear section allows for an extension for a club cab or a DoKa or van body. The roof could even have a bolt in height extender for those who want a raised cab. You end up with someting better than original and modular so that replacing damaged sections would be easier and cheaper plus one could start with the basic and as you get more money or want to change all it would mean is buying the extra parts.

With this design you have all separate bolt together parts: 1. the front engine cover/grill/dash/floor. 2. hood. 3.the door bottoms. 4. the door tops/side windows. 5. the cab lower back. 6. cab upper back/ windows/corners. 7. the roof. 8. extensions for length and height.

Some sound deadening material could be worked into the lamination process and rust would never be an issue. You might even be able to make the parts fit 404 frames with adapters opening up the market even further.

Of course all of this is a major undertaking and require some serious composite skills but in the end you would have a very versatile and improved product.

I know there is at least one 417 running around here in the states. Can't remember who owns it. Maybe he would be willing to loan the truck to pull molds from.

Hey, we can dream can't we :)
 

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#24 · (Edited)
While the bolt together modular system sounds like a good idea, my experiences with this type of construction make me doubt it would hold up long term. Fiberglass flexes alot, the steel bolts create localized areas the glass gets stressed and starts to weaken. Eventually a few fasteners fail and you try to put it back together with bigger fender washers, and then other spots fail, and on and on. I've done a lot of fiberglass scenery pieces for theater sets, mostly on cruise ships where weight is a consideration, and the bolt together pieces always come back for repair. The pieces that are cast separately and glassed together with resin and tape almost never do. I'm curious to see where this goes, I think it could save a lot of rusty 406/16 trucks that are otherwise scrapped because the cab is beyond repair. In my experience you could easily spend 3-5k properly repairing a cab, so purchasing a new one for that much is a pretty good deal. Proper R&R involves removing most everything from the cab anyway, so the swap doesn't involve that much more work, unless you were intending to skimp on the work in the first place. Also, it might be nice to see someone in the states selling some stuff back to Atkinson! Though I wonder how the MOT inspections would view a glass cab? Anyone know about that? If it would pass I think there could be a big market over seas.
 
#27 · (Edited)
The professional molds for this will cost somewhere in the 20-50K range if your getting a really friendly deal. The ultimate demand for cabs in the US is relatively small. Sure lots of people chime up here, and say build and I will buy it. But the reality is that they will likely not due to cost per unit and complexity of painting and installing said cab. A Fiber 416 Doka cab will run in the 10-15K range or more just for a gel coated shell. A single would likely be in the 8-13K range. These would be good prices. Seeing as the demand is so small, one would be better off sourcing restorable cabs from the UK and blasting, repairing, and priming these cabs for sale.

As for pricing, keep in mind that 4 fenders and a front end for a baja bug new will run almost 1K and even more. I have seen custom jet ski/waverunner hulls cost more than 10K. The mog cab pricing above would be on the really, really, really, really cheap side.
 
#28 ·
Well being versed in fiberglass, you can make it single cab/extended cab/doka. Different molds and bonding strips. No bolts needed not even if you wanted a steel bird cage on the inside or underside. Remember guys this is 2010. They have been bonding fiberglass panels together since before 1953 and today's bonding agents are the strongest yet! the bonding agents are stronger than the fiberglass or S.M.C. (sheet molded compound) Here is tidbit of information that comes out of my cesspool of useless information... the floor of the newer corvettes, sandwiched between two pieces of S.M.C., is balsawood. Strongest floor of any car built and cuts road noise. Wow aren't you thrilled with that information.
Anyway The mold builder needs to work with the designer or artist or engineer and they can build it. We have to answer his question... My vote in order would be DOKA first, then extended cab.
 
#30 ·
Well being versed in fiberglass, you can make it single cab/extended cab/doka. Different molds and bonding strips. No bolts needed not even if you wanted a steel bird cage on the inside or underside. Remember guys this is 2010.

The idea for the bolt on panels is not for construction purposes but for modular construction and to make it easily modified from a base unit.

Like KC said it might be too entailed to surmount unless you had nothing else to do and money wasn't an issue. But still I think it is worth investigating. Starting with doors and the like is a good place to begin and to see how hard it is.
 
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