We are trying to get a feel for potential fiberglass cab owners out there as to what they would be interested in. We are trying to assess if the standard cab is one to offer for a replacement for a rusted out cab.
The Doka is what everyone seems to want,but an extended cab is really nice in the trees compaired to the four door.
If the modular thing works out all three or more cab lengths my be accommodated ,but if not are there people looking for a standard or even 4"longer than stock?
Brianbills, we use the balsacore sheet products as the base for most all of our flat panel construction. Once encapsulated in mesh/ resin it is VERY strong, and saves a lot of weight. Might be interesting to lay in between layers of resin to build some rigidity without adding weight.
Honeycomb sandwich is stronger and lighter yet but the dollars add up cubic.
I don't think bolted connections with glass laminate are the way to go construction wise but from a building perspective, having the molds flange or otherwise mate at key junctions would make it a relatively simple matter of joining sections and glass taping them together. Thus from one base mold, a 2d,4d,6d and as we have seen a 10 door shooting brake cold be devised. I spend a good deal of my day devising how to translate a simple sketch into build-able products and I have to say Von and Jason have taken on a complex shape with built in problems. Getting a mock up made in veneer and cardboard would be a major accomplishment going down this road.
Making doors and hoods would be easy. And for that matter making any of the individual panels is cake. But making a one piece cab is going to be very hard. And making multi piece cabs would be hard due to the weight and alignment issues of hand molded parts. It of course can all be done, but is not going to be a fruitful endeavor as a business.
A better business profile would be to build replacement doors, hoods etc. All those little rust parts that people deal with daily.
Now on the other side of the coin, an individual building a foam male form of the desired cab and laying up on top of that, could be done for a one off type deal.
Not to show too much ignorance regarding the entire fiberglass cost and process here, but is glass really that much cheaper than making a steel or aluminum tub like they do for jeeps and other trucks?
The forms used to make steel or aluminum bodies are incredibly costly to build and machine time is costly time. The up side is that the forms to make steel bodies will last much longer and produce many more bodies. But this is cost effective only for thousands of bodies. This project is best left to GRP or the like.
Rapid prototyping would require source data, either a cab to CNC probe ($^3) or develop 3d models from 2d drawings and a reference cab. If someone could beg, borrow or steal drawings from benz they could be rasterd and and serve as the basis for a 3d model but you would still need a reference cab for details.
As far as "printing" a doka, that is far beyond the capacities of most PE printers. You might find a large enough scale machine on the resin tank side but that would be cubic dollars square just based on the size of what you would need.
Best to break the cab down into constituent parts and build models from them, including positive registers uniformly placed. One model for noses, one for hoods, doors etc. By having this data you can export to cad/cam to have stamp molds made, have laminate molds made or tool a cab from aero-alloy billets or a huge block of velveeta if you wished.
Funny you should mention 3d models of vehicles - at work we are developing games for a console hardware platform accessory that uses lidar to see the player interaction. It's very easy to get a point cloud mesh from an object, and nearly as easy to convert into a polymesh. Given access to real lidar or structured light tools to scan a vehicle I don't think the process would be that expensive overall.
If you can find a company that rents time with full size router (zystech comes to mind as an example) you could build a rigid foam plugs quickly and cheaply, possibly faster than pulling molds off an actual steel body.
Seth, you raised the question of selling replacement fiberglass cabs overseas.
The cab material wouldn't be investigated in a British MOT test, only structural integrity (ie. holes, rough edges, etc.) is examined for.
Remember, there are still sports cars on the UK roads with wooden frames.
But, the replacement of the whole cab would legally need to be passed by a VOSA (Vehicle & Operator Services Agency) inspector. This is totally separate from the yearly MOT testing.
If you read the fine print, lots of vehicle 'modifications' need a VOSA stamp of approval. However, very few people seem to voluntarily submit vehicles for inspection.
As far as I know, the only manufacturers tag/label checked by during any type of MOT inspection is the BS AU stamp on motorcycle exhaust systems.
But the exporting of American made Mog replacement parts to Europe brings up a much more complex issue. And that is the European approach to dealing with anthropogenic global warming (and America's refusal to sign up to the Kyoto Protocol).
Having lived in Europe since 1975 and whitnessed America's esteem plummet there over the last decade, I could elaborate on this subject extensively.
Perhaps this would be best served by its own thread.
But let me say this. The European governments are legislating older, dirtier, gas/diesel guzzling vehicles off the road. And this includes Unimogs. They are also legislating 'spares' vehicles off private property (into junkyards for the time being, not into crushers just yet). I know this from personal experience.
So, the availability of Unimog spares in Europe will continue to increase as the use of them on the road becomes more difficult, as the regulations are ratcheted ever upwards to mitigate mankind's impact on climate change.
Americans will enjoy the use of their Unimogs for far longer than most people living in the land it was created in will be able to.
I would like to see the modular cab become available. Personally I want a 404 with the 6 door cab to fit a family. Hopefully I would also be able to fit one of those short 406 doka trays.
But let me say this. The European governments are legislating older, dirtier, gas/diesel guzzling vehicles off the road. And this includes Unimogs. They are also legislating 'spares' vehicles off private property (into junkyards for the time being, not into crushers just yet). I know this from personal experience.
To circumvent these issues why not look at converting the mog to electric. I would love to drop in a quiet 3phase AC motor into the mog and run it like the Oshkosh military trucks. Hence I need the tray for the geny
I spent some time w/ the Magpul cab when we did the body work on it an invested in doing a 3d laser scan of the whole thing. Unfortunately the darker color points didn't come out so well and it's costing me a fortune to have our programmer fill in the blanks and tie in the 10 scan points all together. The scan was done prior to the lighter color paint we applied.
Another option is contact the companies in South africa that already are selling the fiber doka cabs and buy the molds/cads from them.
The cabs look ok and the price is $4000 to $6000 each plus shipping http://www.fibretech.co.za/auto.htm http://www.samog.co.za/
I think there are 2 more but I do not have the sites addresses
For modular you still do not need to bolt it together use the bonding strips, unless you are planning on changing it back and forth between extended cab to doka.
Jason 3D solid modeling is cool but you really do not need this to make a fiberglass mold. You would use it more for tooling or foam for a part that has never been made.
Hands down the cheapest way to make a fiberglass mold would be to make it from an existing part.
I'm just thinking that pulling molds off the steel cab is OK, but the problem is that I don't think the structure lends itself well to fabrication in fiberglass. If you can get the overall shape of the cab (so it looks like a unimog) but re-work the interior to afford more strength and ease of assembly it would be worthwhile to cut cnc foam plugs from a totally new cab design. Get an accurate point cloud in and then just treat it as a sold and cut it up w/csg until you have a workable assembly.
I've done the math and to put a small 3-phase with enough grunt and enough rpm into a mog you'd need an awful lot of your GVW given over to cell storage. Recharge rates would also severely cripple you.
Running a poly phase generator off a turbo-diesel gen-set doesn't hel the problem very much as the electrical demands of said drive motor would require a sizable gen-set running continuously. Again GVW and space given over to power source.
Not to flame anyone and I love seeing the ideas on how to make it and the info about the balsa wood in the floor of a Corvette… but getting back to Jays original Q What kind of cab would you like to see?? As I was reading everyone seemed to want the new cab to Look like the old.. and 1 vote for not a 417 cab style, but would a different cab style work and or be liked? Would anyone want the cab to look completely different? I know it’s a Unimog because it looks like a Unimog I don’t think a radical change would work… I don’t have a 4x6, or 404 Unimog but if was going to own one and have a replacement cab I think a few inches wider would be nicer just for personal comfort.
Jay I think a Doka sytle, then extended and standard will all sell its just a matter of maximizing your payback on the setup you decide on how to build it.
My only Q would be how well would it hold up to smalll trees and rock hits and abrasions
The only real drawback to the 417 or Case removable hardtop/Lake Placid is the off roading in any sort of wooded areas. The cab gets way more tree and ledge smacking than a standard cab.
I'm confident w/ the fiberglass done right,it will hold up against abrasion and other cab smacking off road.
I'm sure to do a very high quality cab it will be out of most Unimog enthusiasts price range though. This has kinda got me down on putting much effort into doing anything soon.
I did recently purchase a CNC router to do shallow molds for things like hoods,doors,roof top pans, etc.I'm too busy to do anything other than our rather large backlog of customers work for the next few months.
Anyone in the Denver area need a job! We are a 5 man show and are looking for a replacement here soon.
Keep the opinions coming!
That is why in the past when this thread was started I suggested a modular cab design so you could switch out to various configurations as need be. Big open 417 cab is nice if you are putting up hay but pretty detrimental if you are weaving through a dense forest.
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