Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

Werner F38 Hydraulic Winch Mounts

12K views 33 replies 5 participants last post by  normalbloke 
#1 ·
Greetings all.
Following my purchase of a Werner F38( see here for pics http://www.benzworld.org/forums/unimog/1472186-werner-winch-id.html)

I am looking for any pics of this winch mounted to the back of an SBU.Or even better any pictures of the mounts themselves for an SBU.Or any part numbers?
Not much to ask really is it?

Seriously, much appreciated if anyone can help out.
 
#4 ·
P.3.

In general, the ends of the drum housing have some sort of plate or box structure that bolts onto the end-caps with longer bolts. This mount then
often hangs off of the rear knuckles, and another arm of the mount extends forward on the frame on each side, clamping around the frame rails, rather
than bolting to or through the frame.

That is the basic set-up, although there are many variations as you can see.
 

Attachments

#5 · (Edited)
P.4.

Some of them have brackets welded to the can, and no arms to the frame
forward. They seem to be the earlier versions.

This caption does not go with these photos, however.

These are the WERNER brackets (in the 1st 4 photos), no longer in production, which incorporate the knuckles into the mount, and bolt on in place of the original knuckles. The winch is A PTO variety, of course.
 

Attachments

#10 ·
As well as all the variations of mount depending on the model of winch, there are also further variants depending on the frame dimensions. Sean had to send back a few different mounts for my Werner because although they fitted the winch, they didn't fit the frame, or else they didn't line up with the holes in the frame. It was hard to figure it out from the EPC, although in the end we figured out that the info was there if you were prepared to wade through a million drawings. They are pricey, but they look good and would be hard to fabricate.
 
#12 ·
Normalbloke, good luck with it. That is a VERY nice winch and I am jealous. You'll find that you have a lot more control with the hydraulic winch vs. it's PTO driven equal.
 
#13 · (Edited)
What Richard said is correct, of course : there are lots of variations in the frames of these things. The spacing from Left to Right of the frame rails, the depth of the chord of the frame rail, and, in the rear, the size (top to bottom)of the rearmost crossmember all vary with the model of the truck, or the specifications of the truck..
I've run into all of those issues on the rear mount project.

In building a rear-mount I have two thoughts :

A. If you can tuck the winch up high enough to the frame or up in between the frame rails, then hard mounting the thing makes sense. Chris' recent posting of his BRADEN mount would fit this description

B. If it creates a rear-departure angle issue (like my H68 certainly does), then the WERNER system where you hang the winch off of the knuckles and pivot the front of the carriage up until it hits the frame, and then clamp it makes sense. Especially when there is the rear spragg as part of the deal.

The winch is too large for me to squeeze it up between the frame rails, and if I tried to cut, chop and cram it up a little tighter, I'd gain an inch or three in clearance; hardly worth it.
So, If I want to drag logs around, I'd want it on there. If I want to go off-roading, I'd want to dump it. The WERNER system seems designed for this, although I'd expect it will be a multi-hour project with a floor jack or two.

C. The 3rd option would be to mimic the WERNER mounts as used on the RW-1 Rescue Truck. The winch is hung under the truck, behind the rear axle, hung from the frame. My H68 is too large for this trick...but it might be something you can do. At least you won't have to line it up with a PTO shaft.

Here are some of the RW-1 style rear mounts.
 

Attachments

#14 · (Edited)
I did a little more digging and came up with a couple more bits.

So, your winch is configured for a front-mount situation, and the normal
WERNER front winch mounts are included, mounted to that frame, which may have been made to mount on the rear, Yes ?

If so, you could get another set of the mounts and set it up so you could swap it from end to end if you wanted.

Here are a couple of shots where the front mounts have been used in the rear, one with a big rear spragg.
 

Attachments

#15 · (Edited)
Here is another approach, where a large (F68-70-ish ) Werner has been mounted
on a 3-point cradle, so the thing can be picked up or dropped off like any implement.

The Winch itself is configured for front mounting, but can used on either end , obviously. Two versions shown.
 

Attachments

#18 ·
John,
Thanks a bundle for those, great stuff.I am collecting the winch on Saturday so hope to gain a little more info then.Would you say that those MB mounts on my winch are front or rear,and for an SBU or not?
I am not sure if the home made frame was acutally used on a Mog or not,again, I will find out a little more of the history on Saturday.
I will not be mounting it on the front of mine,my nudge bar and Bosch/Rexroth winch mounts that I am currently fabricating will preclude that.
The rear sprag mounting is possibly a route that I will take if i cannot get any genuine mounts for it.I have a front blade from a 2.5 ton mini digger that I plan to modify for the rear sprag/anchor, but only if I can get it all to tuck up high enough and not to hinder the departure angle.
Thanks again for your time in locating and posting the additional photos.
 
#21 · (Edited)
YES, you can hang the winch on those mounts and still run the BAUPLATE, and sometimes the plow...Mainly they don't, however, and it may have to do with the fact that these things are heavy, and there is no reason to compound a heavy plow with a heavy winch.

And, your winch has the Front Winch mounts, which are basic to the SBU, the 406-416 series , and I have photos of them on 404's as well.

As Richard noted, there are variations in the type , however, depending on the
frame. You'll notice in the last set of photos that the SBU mounts are actually made up of 4 pieces, tops and bottoms, two per frame rail. These 4 pieces, while they may look the same, will be specific to the frame. I believe that once you get the right ones on the frame, they should take any of the winches
(WERNER), as they all seem to mount in the same way, on the front, that is.
Of course, there are probably exceptions to that....

Since you will be mounting it on the rear, you can use the front mounts and then, by pulling two pins and popping a couple of hoses, you'll be able to drop it , if you choose. The quick-release is a nice feature.
 

Attachments

#22 · (Edited)
You'll notice that the winch drum varies in width on some of these, based on the cable capacity (and more?), but that the base mount (RED) of the winch stays the same, so it will marry to the frame mounts. Compare the photos of the Military U1300L , the new green UHN CZ UNIMOG, and Richard's Red U2450L to see what I'm talking about.

Richard's drum is wider, the other two are narrower, so they expose more of the base mount (carriage?) of the winch, noticeable on the passenger side margin.
 

Attachments

#23 ·
To add a little more information on the WINCH + PLOW issue: since Schmidt
plows seem to be the most numerous, and the Schmidt rig uses a mount of some type in the center to anchor the lifting cylinder, you can't fit a winch at the same time you Run a Schmidt plow.

The ASSALONNI and some BEILHACK plows use another lifting system that
can co-exist with the mounted Winch.
 

Attachments

#24 ·
John, looking closely at your pics,I think it may be possible to mount that winch on the front with my existing nudge bar given a tiny tweak.All I'd need now are the corresponding prats of the brackets! Anyone have any suggestions/part nos/suppliers/mounts kicking around??!!
Getting excited about collecting it now!
 
#25 ·
OK, here are the winch bracket #'s for the front mount WERNER, from my U1250. It is a 1985 vehicle.

All of the numbers are cast into the parts, and all are readable, except one
digit is a little sketchy. I'm 98% sure of it though.

DRIVER'S SIDE

UPPER MOUNT : 425 566 00 04

LOWER MOUNT : 424 552 01 18

Maybe 424 652 01 18 (?) This is the one digit that is hard to be positive about. I'd bet $$$ that the 1st digit of the second group is a "5", the only other thing it could be is a "6"...."5" MAKES SENSE, as it matches up with the passenger side LOWER...

PASSENGER SIDE :

UPPER MOUNT : 424 566 00 04
(PLUS, smaller : 66650 and below that, EW 1867)

LOWER MOUNT : 424 552 02 18

(PLUS, smaller : GTS 45)

IT IS A START, AT LEAST. I can't guarantee these will solve your problem.You have the upper mounts already, whether they are the SAME upper mounts as these uppers may tell the tale.

Some more photos of the SBU front mounts :
 

Attachments

#26 · (Edited)
More.

You'll note that the last photo, of a passenger-side LOWER, does not have numbers that match the ones I posted.(The front of the truck would be to the RIGHT in the photo. The face with the part numbers would be towards the frame.) My U1250 is a 424 series, and the last photo shows a 425 starting number. The frame horns are probably different. In looking at profiles in trying to figure out the UHN-new nose issue on an SBU, I noticed that the distance from the front wheel centerline to the face of the bumper varies from truck to truck.
The cut out with the radius on the lower brackets is there to allow the bracket to fit around the front tubular crossmember. I imagine that the distance from this tube to the end of the frame is one of the variables that makes getting the correct brackets, all 4 of them,
matched to the truck.
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top