Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

Need opinion on SBU wheels

7K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  Dreadnought 
#1 ·
Folks, I have two sets of the 406 drum brake wheels, the ones with the deep off-set. My query is this, are they stout enough for a 1550L DOKA, eventually equipped with a dump bed and at times a camper box. I know the 406 wheels are strong, but the 1550 is a fair bit heavier than a 406, even empty. Anyone see any problems with this, or should I release them to the exchange? Thanks for the input.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Ummm...Nice avatar!

I have those wheels on both of my DOKAS. I did some checking with some dealers in Germany on the same exact issue, and the word was
"MB does not recommend that fitment" or some such language....

HOWEVER, more checking led me to HELLGETH, and they have fitted those rims to a number of SBU's ....SO, I re-contacted the dealerships with that Information, and BOTH dealers responded : " OH, Well if the HELLGETHS
do it, that is a different story..we defer to them...They know what they are doing..." or language to that effect. They definitely have earned some respect in the UNIMOG world in Germany.

In dealing with SEAN during the purchase of the Green truck, I pointed out the WHITE DOKA on the HELLGETH website, and Sean said, "no problem, that thing is on drum wheels and I can get it set up that way for you...."
SO, I got the wider front fenders, made brackets to move the rear fenders out 3" and have been very happy with the set-up.

Yes, because you are increasing the track width, you are increasing the load on the kingpins and so on...but when you look at some of the loads these things carry, and are designed to carry, a camper or a dump bed , unless filled with lead ingots, should not overtax the system, in my opinion.

If you pick up some of the UNIMOG books that are filled with photos from around the world and spanning decades, when you start looking for" DEEP-DISH" wheels, well, you'll find they are in wide usage, with full implement loads. It seems that people have been running them for years, at least.

I have 3 sets of them, but I could use four, if you just can't stand them.
 
#3 ·
Thanks John, also for my bitchin' avatar. BTW, do you have those images in a larger resolution for printing purposes?

So I agree with you, these should be fine other than having to widen the fenders a little, if I really want. My thoughts are this. I currently have a set of five regular off-set "heavy duty"(ie thicker metal than normal) SBU wheels that came with the 1550. These are really just fine with me. I have been wondering if an extra set of wheels (the 406 drum brake wheels) fitted with something along the lines of xm47's for trips like the Altar would be prudent. Keeping my regular wheels with some MPT81's for more everyday usage. This is all assuming I win the lottery and can afford this many expensive tires, but you get my drift.
 
#5 · (Edited)
James,
No those are the only photos I have of your truck, but I am always looking.

SINCE you have HD wheels, here is something to check : Your Drum wheels
may or may not fit. It is not about the bolt pattern. The thing to check is to compare your lug nut seating area on the two rims. If they match, you are good to go. If one is flat, and one is coned, you may not be able to run the DRUM wheels. I have Heavier rims on the U1450 with the drum off-set,(it looks to be), but my Drum rims will fit.

If I had the "OTHER" HD rim style, the Drums would not have fit and I would have had to start over....so I chased that for a couple of days while the truck was still in Germany.

It has to do with the lugnut, really, whether it has a bevel or is flat. Since I don't have the "wrong" HD rims, I'm not sure what they look like exactly, but they are out there.
 
#8 ·
My truck came with the conical seat lug nuts originally. I believe all MB trucks with a 10 bolt pattern had them. Anyway, my new military spec wheels had a flat face. Wanting to use the original lug nuts and tapered lock washers, I opted to have the wheels machined for a tapered seat. It was pretty easy but I had to track down the $70 drill bit to do it.
 
#9 ·
Are there rubbing issues with running drum rims on the SBU's like there are in the 406-416's? I had a set of drum rims that I used just to move the mog around, and it would hit the steps if you turned too sharp with them on. And this was with 12.5x20 on. I can't even think of the damage you could do with 14.5's on them.
 
#12 ·
Von,

My 1250 DoKa has the drum rims on it with 14.50's on it and they hit the fenders (wider versions) when I'm thrashing the crap out of it using it on my farm and in my salvage yard. We are talking flexing it out pretty good though and slamming into pre made ruts and tree roots, ect. I don't know if this would happen on one that the fenders weren't so beat up that they don't resemble the original shape though. Under the use that most would put a SBU through, I don't think there would be a problem, and under normal street driving I don't notice any rubbing.

Cheers,
Ben
 
#13 ·
I've got the 425 XM-47's on them on the green truck, and I get a little mud flap
bolt twang at full lock on a left turn, but no interference with anything that matters.
That can be solved by going to the Plastic fender "bumps" that are common on AG UNIMOGS.
 

Attachments

#17 ·
OK so my lug nuts will be an issue. My HD wheels are flat faced and the 406 wheels have a beveled face. The question now is if I find an extra set of beveled lug nuts to go with the 406 wheels, all should be ok, right. Are the larger SBU sized lug nut available with beveled ends?
 
#18 ·
Since you have the flat lug nuts, I'd expect the stud size to be larger as well.
Is it ? If it is, then you'd have to drill out your drum wheel holes anyway, and the bevel would disappear...mainly, at least. So, you might be good that way.
If the wheels do fit over the studs, then I think you will be able to source the lug nuts somewhere, if not from MB.
 
#19 ·
There's probably more to it than just beveling the holes and getting new nuts. There are two types of wheels, hub-centric, and non-hub-centric, or lug-centric. Most modern vehicles use the hub-centric type, requiring a precise fit of wheel center hole around the hub.

If moved to a hub-centric vehicle, a wheel made to be lug-centric will not have the correct fit, or probably won't, because the lugs have kept the wheel centered. From what I have been reading, if a lug-centric wheel is moved to a hub-centric vehicle, some machining, or shimming, is required. I ran across reference this info on the Dynabead site. Apparently they have had situations where a wheel runs out-of-true due to mismatch of type of wheel.

So, beware, just tapering the holes, then putting a wheel off another vehicle that was lug-centric onto a hub-centric vehicle might work fine at first, but the wheel will probably not be properly supported for the long haul.

YMMV,

Bob
 
#20 ·
That is correct-and I'd think that the Flat Lugnuts would denote Hub centric, and beveled lug nuts would indicate Lug centric....

Since it is a UNIMOG, well, I wonder if they hold to the rule, or not ?
Probably do, I'd guess.

When Ford switched bolt patterns on their 8-lug pick ups and went with the 8-on-170 mm bolt circle, they also went the hub centric route, so flat lug
nuts were the order of the day.

As a practical matter, with 8 studs, the wheel pretty much lands where it lands : there isn't much (any)wiggle room, and beveled
lug nuts and coned seating surfaces are commonly fitted to the Fords, even though it is "wrong" . Wheels are made specifically for the Superduty, with the correct 8-on-170 pattern, but with the incorrect coned seating surface.
Go figure.
 
#21 ·
OK, thanks guys. I know it sounds as if I'm being lazy since I don't just put the wheel on the 1550 to see what's what. Truth be told, my truck in apart undergoing a restoration of sorts and those 406 wheels are miles away in storage. So in a way, yes I'm being lazy. I guess it's time to go get one and try it out. Sounds as if they won't work though.
 
#24 ·
Sean they are M20's, and the 406 wheels fit beautifully. It looks as if all I need are a batch of M20 tapered end lug nuts to make them work.

As far as hub centric vs stud centric goes....

The 1550 has flat faced nuts, so that would be hub centric? Meaning the wheel finds and keep its self true on the hub, correct?

The 406 wheel looks to me to have the same tolerance on the hub as the 1550's wheel does, so that with the combination of the tapered lug nuts nesting down into their tapered holes on the 406 wheels should keep this thing running true just fine, right?


So, anyone need three 406 drum brake wheels? Looks like I'm keeping five after all.
 
#26 ·
I have a funny old wheel problem. (U1300L on 6 Stud standard military) I can,t really afford these nice XM speed rated tyres. I can get Russian tyres, great tread, rated for 50mph and tough, for only 2/3 the price of XM47s, they just won,t fit my wheels. The Russian tyres have a great big fat rim of rubber that touches the valve and would unseat it if they flex. They are really made for tubes that have the valve in the centre line of the wheel. So do I have my wheels engineered? (plate over the valve hole and drill a new one near the centreline, then used extenders on the valve out through a hole drilled in the wheel hub - making sure I miss the dics with the extender.) Or buy some 10 stud converters and look in a scrap yard for some old 10 stud truck wheels? (abundant in many sizes)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top