This sellers version of a trade is for you ship to him first and wait for him to ship back. This seller had me buy 15" bundt's in Tampa (4 hour drive round trip), pay $550, clean the wheels. And when I said I was going to ship and waited for a reply, he stated that I had to ship first and he would ship the BBS's upon receiving my wheels.
1) I tried to negotiate a "same ship date" so we both ship on the date (sound reasonable?)
2) I offered to pay for his wheels via paypal, have him ship me his wheels. And then, he would pay me the same amount and I would ship him the bundt's. This allowed for us both to have receipts for the transaction. He said he didn't trust paypal.
3) He wanted me to blindly trust him on his reputation but he wouldn't trust me ONE BIT, not even with paypal.
What gives? How do you trust someone who's not willing to trust you? I offered to pay via paypal and he didn't want to deal with the paypal headache of clearing funds or me changing my mind.... How about you changing your mind after we agreed to trade?
This seller did not want to negotiate at all. It was his way (I send rims, he confirms, he ships his back) or no trade AFTER I bought these 15" bundt's just for our trade. I drove 4 hours to pick these up. Below is trail of emails.
Never had this happen to me... unreal to meet someone so unwilling to work with someone else. He trust no-one, but everyone must trust him.
EMAILS BEGIN HERE!
11:06 AM (8 minutes ago)
I'm not sure you wasted any of your time. You simply weren't willing to trust me one bit while I had to trust you 100%. You're not willing to make any sacrifices for this deal. You completely wasted my time and money on wheels I don't want or need. We had an agreement and you backed out. Not fair at all. When you negotiate, it is a give and take. You make it seem like I have nothing to lose and you do. I have rims I bought for you, drove 4 hours total. I am willing to pay you for your wheels and then you pay me for mines and you don't even trust me like that. How do you expect me to trust you given those circumstances? I offered to pay for your wheels!!!!! What the hell. Because of you I have this money tied up in wheels I don't want. But you don't see any of that. All you want me to do is ship them to you at your liking. Not fair at all.
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Garrett Sowards <email@example.com> wrote:
My friend sold a pair of w123 fog light NOS but because there were different years the box color changed. Both lights were the same just different box. After my friend got the PayPal money and it had cleared the hold the buyer canceled the payment saying he didn't get what he paid for. My friend lost the part AND the money as the buyer didn't return the part. PayPal has changed recently which you can lookup and confirm. Regaurdless of what time and money you have RECENTLY invested in the bundts I still have morn in the bbs ..ie more to lose. I only pointed out that you said you were going to do something and changed it. This deal has gone sour and it really sux for both of us, but at this point I'm better off keeping the wheels.
There are other interest in trading but I really liked those bundts. I still think you have failed to see the fact this was never a normal standard trade. One person was to get the lions share so as to actually do the trade in the first place. If I wasn't trying to rush I'd have just sold the wheels for cash locally and bought the bundts brand new with my shop account at the stealership.
Sorry for waisting each others time.
On Dec 20, 2011 5:20 AM, "Jackie Fernandez" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
8:20 AM (2 hours ago)
It seems like you're just making excuses. Would you like for me to send you a check? How were you planning to collect payment if you sold these wheels for the $1200 you stated you were going to get? I've been trying to come up with many ways to make this work. First you said you didn't want to front the money and now that I am willing to front the money you're saying you don't want to use paypal? The only way to get this done is if you get your wheels first. The only ways this works is if I trust you, but you're showing zero trust towards me. Bare in mind, I've already wasted $550, gas, and a two hour drive. But you don't trust me one bit and I have trust you. If that doesn't sound odd please let me know.
We agreed that I wanted the tires before I drove all the way to Tampa and we said we could come up with some type of accord with the shipping. If the tires are the issue, I'm willing to let them go. Bare in mind, new tires will run me well over $300 to $400. And I'm willing to let them go to make this deal happen. If you still don't want to make it happen without tires than for all purposes this is dead. I have exhuasted all options to get this deal done. I'm willing to front money, use paypal to ensure we both have security and even drop the tires (that were in the original deal). This is a really bad way to negotiate when I am the only one making concessions.
And I understand you have this great reputation on the forum, but please note that I do as well. I haven't ripped anyone off. All I am asking for is a way to make this happen that is fair for both of us. But you're rebuttal every time is no. I really can't believe this is happening where a fellow forum member simply won't negotiate to fair and even terms. I'm not doing anything reasonable and by using paypal we are giving both us security in the transaction.
This is my last email trying to negotiate. And yes, you wasted my time, money and effort on the premise that you won't negotiate. Very disappointing and of all the years buying and selling on the internet, this is a first for me.
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Garrett Sowards <email@example.com> wrote:
I dont want to deal with PayPal and the waiting for stuff to clear and if you decide to have them refund the money and keep the rims. You can ask the "countless" people on the forums to vouch for me first before you move forward or just move on. A fair trade would be rims for rims. This is not the case as you want the tires as well which decent used tires locally will cost you less than they will for me to ship.
PayPal idea would sound better if it were trade for trade but again I have a following that can vouch, where I come from that makes a difference. If your not cool with that I understand but I don't have time to waste playing with PayPal and wasting money to just show good fair. It was a good idea and I appreciate you putting the thought into it.
If we don't do this deal I will repost and make it clear rims for rims and you can also post so maybe someone can buy them from you and you can make some money for your time, but I will make it clear in the next ad that its just rims for rims.
Sorry again, but I've done this type of thing before so no need to change something that's been working.
On Dec 19, 2011 8:37 PM, "Jackie Fernandez" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
One final attempt at this...
How much $ would it take for you to send me the BBS's wheels? I pay you for the BBS's wheels and once I receive the wheels, I will then sell you the Bundt's for the same price. Which means you pay me for the bundt's and then I ship them to you. No pre-shipping. You don't ship the BBS's wheels until you get paid and then I don't ship the bundt's until I get paid. This way we use paypal for each transaction. We each lose the paypal feel and have a record for the transactions. This would make it a fair trade for the same "price" minus the paypal fees. We each cover our own fees.
This would keep both of us happy and should enable some sort of trust among us. The set price would include shipping. I front the original money so you don't need to have any cash upfront.
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Garrett Sowards <email@example.com> wrote:
I don't have that kind of money to play with at this time. But what I have done in the past with many people was just have them send what they wanted to trade. I cannot afford to rip someone off as if i do I will lose more money if my reputation is bruised on the forums. Look me up on Benzworld and you will see. I was worried about this deal because I saw the ad still up, however the seller said you got the rims and were very nice so this is good news. But as with anyone I was willing to trade pricey rims for less pricey rims just based on preference alone. My wagons going to be out of the paint booth soon and that's what I wanted the rims for. You said you would send them then changed the method then changed the day as well. So either you find another way to trust me be it talking to others I have done business with (one in NY one in Poland) where deals have been similar in risk. Or just sale the rims you have now for more and we both just move on. I'm going to spend more in shipping because of tires as well as the fact they are bigger. That's fine because I knew they were bigger but did not expect the tires to go as well. I thought you would spend 700 for the rims and under 200 for shipping. You paid less and that is fine but I'm still giving a higher price wheel for a set of beat up rims I want. So at this point either sell the rims you have and call me a jerk for wasting your time or go by your word and send the wheels however you see fit, but I will not ship anything til I see the rims in person. You have it in writing that even if the rims you send have "chunks" out of them I will still be happy and honor our trade. Unless the wheels are completely trashed or not the ones in the photos he posted in the Cl ad I will honor the trade. I can send you a copy of my passport and house address. Other than that I can't do much more.
Sorry hope you understand and don't take offense.
On Dec 19, 2011 11:59 AM, "Jackie Fernandez" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
we can also sell the wheels to each at a set price. The same price for both sets. If either of us doesn't like the product we get, the "buyer" must pay the return shipping.
Lets say we set the price at $1000 including shipping (just an example, I really don't know what price we should set). You send me $1000 via paypal for the bundt's. When you receive them, you look them over. If for whatever reason you don't like them, send them back and I'll refund you $1000. If you like them, I will then send you $1000 for your BBS wheels. If I don't like them upon receipt, I will pay for return shipping and you will refund me $1000.
This way we both have at least $1000 in leverage. Besides this, I really don't know how to establish some reasonable trust between us. Like I said, you're willing to ship on a set date where we both ship on the same day, I am OK with that and I'm willing to take your word that you're going to ship on that said date.
Let me know what you think.
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Garrett Sowards <email@example.com> wrote:
The wheels I have are worth 2k you and I both know this, however you said you would be shipping on your end. I have not even received photos of them and on top of that I have to ship you larger wheels with tires.
I have a record online that can be traced so I am taking way more of a gamble also unless I contact that guy that had the wheels I wouldn't know you have them as his cl ad is still up.
I'm not trying to get one over on anyone, but until I have solid proof I'm not shipping anything yet. Sorry hope all is well but you can check our emails I'm not trying to be unfair at all.
On Dec 18, 2011 6:38 PM, "Jackie Fernandez" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
I was hoping to hear that you were getting ready to ship the bbs wheels as well. Was hoping that we would ship at the same time or close to each other. I'm invested $550 into wheels I don't really want. Some assurances about the wheels being on their way would help :-)
On Dec 18, 2011 2:49 PM, "Garrett Sowards" <email@example.com> wrote:
Thought you were shipping the bundts first. Said you were going to use ups for some reason
On Dec 18, 2011 6:28 AM, "Jackie Fernandez" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> hi garrett, we...
El Pookie aka Mr. Jackie
1982 300D Turbo Diesel