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2005 SL500 just bought and having ABC problems already

29K views 49 replies 11 participants last post by  sgaar 
#1 ·
I just purchased a sl500 w/ 70,000 on the 19th of August and have driven it for less than 200 miles and have had the ABC light come on once and the other time noticed the passenger side front sitting 1 finger width above the tire while the drivers side rear sits at about 5 finger widths above the tire. Brought it back to the dealer after the 1st time when the light actually came on and all he did was just push the buttons and said it seems to be working fine. I know it's not suppose to drop at all, let alone after just sitting for 24 hrs or less. I'm just curious if I should just try to get our from under the car because I feel they might fix one issue that could prolong it till it's out of warranty and then I'm on my own and for the amount I paid, don't have another $5-7000 to drop into this immidiately. What is everyone's thoughts and what do some of the experts think could be the cause if this. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this as this was a gift to myself after my deployment and don't want a car I'm making payments on that I can't drive. Thanks
 
#2 ·
Forgot to mention, the first time it happened, the ABC stop car too low light did come on, but by cycling through the ride heights, I was able to get it to the proper height. I am sure the dealer I bought it from does not have the proper ability to diagnose the problems. Should I bring it to a mercedes dealer and have them run it through the phases and see how many times the car has had this problem recently, and to see what they say??
 
#3 ·
ABC issues with all R230s

A first suggestion might be to check under the car to see if there is a fluid leak from any of the 4 cylinders. If so, take it back and show the dealer (after you take pictures) so your warranty is activated. These cylinders cost $1000 each plus the computer on top of them, and then there is labor. This is an extremely high pressure system, so every joint, every hose, everything has to be perfect or it leaks.

Secondly, it could be something as minor as the fluid level is too low. This is a special oil, and the MB dealer or a reliable indy can provide it and show you how to check it.

If this is your first SL with ABC, spending a few hours browsing this, and other, blogs relating to this car would be a good investment. There is a wealth of knowledge on all sorts of issues in the knowledge base.

Thanks for your service, and good luck. It's a beautiful car, and hopefully you will derive as much pleasure from driving it as this 70 year old man does.
 
#4 ·
It could just be a dirty valve block but equally many other things, it needs to go on STAR to see what it says.

It depends on the honesty of any MB dealer to get a good read out, a good indie might be better.
 
#5 ·
yep. Most likely a dirty valve block. Don't let the dealer or shop you take it to try to convince you it is pump or strut problem unless they have good evidence. Even the MB dealers aren't very knowledgeable about the ABC system and will throw expensive parts at the problem based in incorrect interpretations of what the computer diagnostics (SDS) tells them.

I suggest getting the car read with SDS to get the error codes, along with their recommendation, and then come back to this forum for advice again.
 
#6 ·
The dealer I bought the car from is not a Mercedes Dealer, and I am positive has very little experience in servicing a Mercedes. I think I will be contacting the dealer over the weekend and telling him I want it put on a star machine from a dealer and see what they say. I might even take it there myself and just return to them with what it says needs to be repaired and try to have them pay for all the repairs suggested.
I have been looking through the many articles on the ABC and that's how I knew immediately this was not normal. The Dealer stated that the car never had this problem, but I find it hard to believe when within 24 hrs of owning it, the problem raised it's ugly head. I want as much taken care of before I start spending my own money on the repairs. Keep the advice coming, I am sure I am going to be needing it.
 
#7 ·
#10 ·
The thing to be mindful of is that their first step will probably be to do a "rodeo" that exercises the system and replace the ABC fluid filter. Sometimes this corrects the problem, at least temporarily. Often the problem returns.

It is sort of like trying to clean a frying pan by just running hot water over it. Sure you will wash away the loose bits, but the "caked on" crud attached to the valve seats is going to stay. You may get some temporary relief but the problem will likely be back, in my opinion.

Try pressuring the dealer into replacing the valve block altogether.
 
#12 ·
Document the issues and hold them accountable. My guess is they knew about the issue and hoped you would take it lightly. Especially after you brought it to there attention and they tried to downplay it. Either they are either liars or clueless. As someone else posted, the rodeo is the only way to start your repair process. Find a shop that has the "stars" software and can perform a rodeo test. You might even have other issues. And I would absolutely expect your problem to be worse after the rodeo. I had a bad accumulator and the rodeo tests before and after the replacement of all four accumulators washed away the debris in my valve block that was helping the O-Rings maintain a seal. Now I have the "too low" issue after my SL sits for a matter of hours. I have 67,000 miles on my SL btw. Mercedes considers the block to be "non serviceable" and does not offer a rebuild kit. Only a full replacement part (expensive too). I have seen several DIY's on forums and youtube on how to rebuild the blocks yourself. I also saw a couple of places on ebay that offered "rebuilt" valve blocks for roughly $300 plus a core.
You are fortunate to have caught this while still under a warranty.
Hold them accountable.
 
#14 ·
Well, got the car back on the 28th because they said the mercedes dealer couldn't get it in till the following thursday, that's after they had it for 4 days. Dropped it off the following thursday and there it has sat since..... I called the dealership and asked them about what was going on and I told them about the ABC Car too low light, and he said the car didn't register anything. I thought when the ABC Warning light comes on for that, that it makes a history recording? Well, they said the car hadn't dropped in the 2 days that they had it before I called them, which is funny because almost like clock work, the car drops within 24 hrs at my house and I even took pictures of it to show the dealer. The only way I am able to get the car back to the proper height is by pressing the ride height buttons, it doesn't self correct even after starting the engine. The car has been at or with the dealer 3x's, stopped in the 1st time, he pushed the ride height buttons and everything worked fine, second time it sat at the dealership for 4 days before they said it couldn't be brought into the Mercedes dealership for a week and a half. Now it's been 8 days they have had it and I haven't even heard a word regarding it. The dealership for all intents and purposes has had the car more than I have since buying it, and the majority of the mileage put on the car has been driving the car back and forth to them. I'm just wondering what everyone's take on everything might be. I'm not sure if I should try to look into a lemon law issue or if it comes back fixed, take the chance that I'm not going to run into further issues just after the 60 day warranty is up. Thanks for everyones help and advice.
 
#15 · (Edited)
You are on BS ride, any warning should register, unless they intentionally clear codes. Also you don't diagnose the car by looking at it, and "looks right, seems to work fine now" is not a valid diagnostic result. This is a well known "you must be crazy" routine and they must be stalling for time. Document everything, assume any verbal promise will be broken, and communicate over email (so there is a trail) as much as possible.

Also, it is extremely unlikely that they will properly fix this.

Check your local laws, they are probably trying to hit 30 day ownership where they can disown the problem.
 
#16 ·
I had my SL55 for 6 years. My CL 500 for 10 Years. I say Valve Block and Contaminated Fluid. Car should not drop after a day. Maybe a little after a few weeks. But should jump back up when it starts. The Up/Down Function just forces it quicker.
Any message on the Dash is recorded and will stay in the system for about 5 start stop cycles. You need to find a REAL Service Advisor at the Dealer that is FAMILIAR with an ABC equipped Benz. Otherwise your wasting your time.

There are 2 Kinds of SL`s. Good ones and cursed ones. None in between. If the car is cursed I would dump it quick. Its a huge money pit. Other thing you should do is get the "Service History Report" from the dealer. Everytime that car was at the Benz Dealer it was recorded in their dealer wide system. Work done and Parts used. You can get that report if you ask nicely.

If it has a history of ABC and Electrical Issues get rid of it unless your made of money.
 
#17 ·
Which dealer has the car at present? the MB service dept or the dealer that sold the car to you?

I do know from my limited experience with the ABC system that MB keeping it a week is not unusual if they are working the problem in a trial and error fashion and ordering parts for each attempt. They also have to wait a day or two to see if their fix worked, which drags it out even more.

I would think the MB dealer has no skin in the game so they would be rather impartial. Is the dealer that sold the car to you one of the big dealers or a small independent? I would expect the latter to play games but less so for the former.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Well, stopped by the Mercedes Dealership, people who are supposed to repair it, and the service advisor said they have yet to do anything in regards to the car. They said they can't duplicate the problem and sent an email to the dealership in regards to what they think the issue might be and what they want to repair/ replace. They've yet to hear back from the dealership. I also asked the Mercedes dealership if I could get a copy of service history report in regards to the car. They told me that they couldn't provide me with one that there isn't one. I then questioned them about isn't all maintenance history recorded in a database? Finally he was like oh yeah, but he doesn't have access to be able to pull something like that up. I find it amazing they can't or won't provide one and looked surprised that I would even have any knowledge of something like that. My assumption is he's use to dealing with people who have more money than brains. At this point, they've had the car for a week and a half and all the car has done is sit there. I would have thought at the very least they would have done a Rodeo service on it. Am I being too unreasonable in what I'm expecting in regards to the car? I've owned the car for less than a month and the car has been at the dealership more than my driveway. I really don't want to get rid of the car, but my patience and trust in the ability for either place to correct the problem is at just about zero. I'm pretty sure absolutely nothing will be done in regards to the car over the weekend so I think I am going to call the dealership I bought it from and let him know either he can take the car back and refund all of my money or I will be seeking legal recourse in hiring a lawyer and filing a lemon law case. I am glad I have taken pictures of the car just about every time the car has sank and have multiple witnesses to seeing the car in the car too low state. I would just figure that a Mercedes dealership would at least have had to deal with this issue previously and have a starting point to correcting the problem, not letting the car sit there for 2 weeks.
 
#19 ·
Tough situation. Maybe everyone is telling the truth about sagging and not. It was sagging while you had it and whatever gunk that was causing the valve to leak dislodged on the drive to the dealer. They may be equally convinced you are messing with them. I would have a hard time believing both dealers would collude and lie.

I would suggest working out a compromise (in writing) extending the warranty on that particular issue only, since you reported it during the warranty period, and then take the car back. if you go to war neither side is going to win here.

My MB dealership service advisor was more than happy to print out the service history on the vehicle I had just bought. They most certainly have the ability. But every dealer may have different policies on it. I was already a paying customer by the time I asked, so maybe that makes a difference.

I would google the lemon law before threatening it. I don't think it applies here, but there may be other protection laws that do.

I was angry as well discovering an ABC issue two days after I bought my SL500. It served as a wake up call that this car comes with lots of expensive repair bills. And my choices were to come to terms with it or trade it off on something else. I decided to keep it anyway because it is a spectacular car otherwise.

if you take the car back, flushing the fluid may help prevent the sagging problem from returning.
 
#20 ·
Just a thought for you to consider

noticed the passenger side front sitting 1 finger width above the tire while the drivers side rear sits at about 5 finger widths above the tire.
My thought is that usually the valve block is a problem if BOTH the front, or BOTH the rear corners drop at the same time. In your case you indicate the passenger front has dropped. But the drivers front stays at the proper level. To me, that would more indicate a bad strut, or accumulator. Or maybe a leaky hose connection on that corner.

You have seen it sag (sink) while at the dealer. Does it always sag in the same way? On the same corner? Or does it sink differently at different times.

I would also submit that if the car comes back up after starting, the pump is working.

Just for discussion, have you checked the fluid level (before it sinks) with the engine off? And again (after it sinks) with the engine off. Does the fluid level in the reservoir change?...Or not. Is the system bleeding back into the reservoir? If not, it may be draining back into the accumulator...bad diaphragm? And then of course, ask yourself if the fluid level is correct with engine running and then again with engine off? Is the fluid clean?

I realize these are questions that you might not have answers to. Since you have not really participated in the diagnosis. Why would you. That is what the dealer should be doing. But these might be some questions you can ask the dealer.

My experience is that a Mercedes dealer service department will do everything possible to service (and bill for) any problem they can find. Sometimes they may tend to OVER-SERVICE. If they do not do that, they likely have not found, or confirmed the problem.

I also think if the dealer cannot confirm the problem, it may not be a lemonable (is that a word?) case.
 
#21 ·
ok, here's some updates...
15 September: Contacted the dealer I bought the car from. They told me the dealer couldn't recreate the issue and said it is most likely the valve block and to they were going to clean it and I should have it back on tuesday. I questioned them about flushing and filtering the fluids as well, but was told Mercedes said it was pointless as it almost never fixes the problem.

16 September: Contacted Keeler Mercedes to see what they recommended the issue was. The service advisor said they rodeo'd it and did a leak test and could not duplicate issue. They also did an electrical test and had something come up saying the car dropped but it didn't leave an error code. They told me they recommended the replacement of the valve block/ mono valve. BTW, no car back yet.

11 days in my possession, 18 days at the dealers and I've had the car too low light 4x's with pictures every time it happened...... I'm wondering if they will make the car payment for this month, heck they've had it more than me. LMAO ok I'm sure that's not going to happen.

Questions I am left with are these.... If the dealer I bought the car from is going to "clean the valve block", doesn't that in itself mean that they are admitting there is contaminants in the system and the flush and filter should be completed irregardless?

Also, I don't know if I mentioned it previously when describing the issues, but when the passenger side front drops, the drivers side rear rises. I measured it and from the fender well to the top of the rim it's 2" on the dropped wheel and 6" on the drivers rear. Not sure if it matters, but thought I'd make sure I gave you all the details. I tried to upload the pictures, but can't seem to figure it out, so I'll research it and see what I can do.
 
#22 ·
some other details in response to some of the question:My thought is that usually the valve block is a problem if BOTH the front, or BOTH the rear corners drop at the same time. In your case you indicate the passenger front has dropped. But the drivers front stays at the proper level. To me, that would more indicate a bad strut, or accumulator. Or maybe a leaky hose connection on that corner.

You have seen it sag (sink) while at the dealer. Does it always sag in the same way? On the same corner? Or does it sink differently at different times.

I would also submit that if the car comes back up after starting, the pump is working.
Car does not come back up after starting the car. I have to use the ride height adjustments to get the car to go to the proper height.

Just for discussion, have you checked the fluid level (before it sinks) with the engine off? And again (after it sinks) with the engine off. Does the fluid level in the reservoir change?...Or not. Is the system bleeding back into the reservoir? If not, it may be draining back into the accumulator...bad diaphragm? And then of course, ask yourself if the fluid level is correct with engine running and then again with engine off? Is the fluid clean?
Never checked it due to the fact I immediately brought it back to the dealer, and I didn't do any due diligence in regards to researching this site, btw this place is awesome with a lot of useful information and how go's. If they do not do it, I'll either try to do it myself, or there is are 2 independents that were recommended in the Albany, NY area that I might try.

I did tell the dealership that at this point, I'm not even sure I want the car back as noone seems to be able to come up with an answer, but in the little time I have had it, I do love the car, just not the potential for all the $$$$$$ that I might have to shell out chasing this problem. If I can get some type of real warranty on the ABC issues, I'd more than likely keep it as it is a sweet car. My only other concern is with the colder months coming upon us in NY, she'll most likely be put to bed soon, so it won't be getting driven until the spring. I appreciate everyone's assistance with this problem though. You guys have an awesome site.
 
#24 ·
The rodeo is a good thing. Not sure cleaning the valve block is the answer. If the Mercedes dealer recommends a Valve block replacement, that is what should be done. I still say if it is only one corner, the valve body may not be the problem. Usually both outlets of the body go bad at the same time. But if they recommend to change it, you should insist they do. And you should insist in a fluid flush. It may not always solve a problem. But dirty fluid can almost always cause a problem. I suspect this might be a lot of your issue.

If the switches bring the car up, the pump is likely not the problem. Might be a pump controller issue. But not the pump.

When one corner goes down. The opposite corner naturally will rise some. Your seems to rise to an extreme level. Makes me wonder if fluid is evacuating the front pass side, and somehow getting diverted to driver side rear. I don't know how this can happen. Maybe back feeding through the pump to the rear valve block? And then to the driver side rear outlet in the valve block. Sounds very unlikely. But something weird is going on there.

To me it sounds like your ABC system has multiple problems. And they are looking for only one problem. Fixing one issue may not fix the whole problem. If the struts are not leaking, I would suggest checking/changing the accumulators. Easy to check. And not expensive if replacement is needed.

Unless you can get some security this problem is going to be really fixed and fixed correctly and completely, you might want to fall OUT OF LOVE with this car.
 
#25 ·
well just received a call from the place I bought might car from. Well apparently they just found out when taking the block apart, you need to replace the rubber O rings as well, not sure if they tried to put it back together and it had issues or broke them removing them.

They also informed me that while taking the block apart, they noticed corrosion inside the block, not really sure how this happens. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? I'm just a little confused due to the fact that I thought it is a sealed system, and corrosion is normally caused by moisture, so not sure how this could happen. Just leaves me with further questions now as if the one block is corroded internally, how is the other block not corroded or other parts intertwined within the system? Hopefully I can get some feedback from some of you that have experience with the ABC system.

Supposed to call back tomorrow with further updates and to keep me posted. Thanks again for everyones assistance with the issues.
 
#26 · (Edited)
The fluid is Hydroscopic. Meaning (Absorb Water) it will condense and be absorbed by water over time. If brake fluid reaches the boiling point it can begin to vaporize and those vapors can become water. So yes...corrosion can occur if the system is not maintained over time. The bad news is that ALL components should be affected equally if corrosion is an issue. They found it in this one valve block. Probably a problem in all other components. Pump, the other valve block, struts, etc.

This car has not been maintained. Run away.
 
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