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Mods and warranties . . .

951 views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  430 
#1 ·
How easy is it for the dealership to tell if your chip has been reprogrammed? I have another year left in my factory warranty and a year after that of StarMark warranty, neither of which I want to void. The recent discussion, though, of the Powerchip 320 chips has me excited about the prospect of 20 extra HP and ft-lbs. What do you think, is that a high-risk endeavor?
 
#2 ·
You are correct in that it can be a "high risk" issue. You have 24 months left on a very good warranty program--is 20HP worth the possibilities.

Once the data readout box is attached to your vehicle the Revision level of the "Chip" is either MB and good or non-MB and any problems that can be related to that chip and it enchancements are yours.

As service manager at a DialmerChrysler store-I can attest to the number of "chipped" diesel trucks that have restriction levied aganist their warranties for the presence of a "Chip".

Check your owners manual-warranty section-it discusses unauthorized modifications and their effect on your automobiles warranty.
 
#3 ·
One thing to remember is that they can't just void your warranty because you have modifications. They have to prove that the modification caused the damage. In addition from everything I have read they can't just plug into the computer and tell if it has been modified. New code is not placed on the chip. The timing and the fuel maps are tweaked for better performance. It is not like they are upgrading your computer from Windows 98 to Windows 2000.
 
#4 ·
Mercedes-Benz
Service and Warranty Information
2002 - Passenger Cars
PN P-0417-02A (06/01)
Page 13

"DAMAGE DUE TO ALTERATIIONS: Alterations by changing or adding to the car can adversely affect its performance, reliability and longevity and are not covered by this warranty"

They, the manufacturer, can restrict, limit or cancel your warranty based on any number of situations. For example--20 additional hp delevering some extra amount of torque to the rear end has to go thru the weakest part of any automatic transmission, the torque converter. The torque converter is designed to accomondate the original torque value. Could it be considered that the MB torque converter is faulty because it can not withstand your obivous imporvements.

Should your modifications have no effect on the failure (material or workmanship provided by MB) should be no problem.

In any matter, the final decision rest with the owner of the vehicle and the warranty provider, ie, MB. Please do not shoot the messenger at the dealership-they are just working blokes like most of us and just want to do the best they can at it.
 
#5 ·
LDO6180 - 1/28/2004 8:37 PM

Mercedes-Benz
Service and Warranty Information
2002 - Passenger Cars
PN P-0417-02A (06/01)
Page 13

"DAMAGE DUE TO ALTERATIIONS: Alterations by changing or adding to the car can adversely affect its performance, reliability and longevity and are not covered by this warranty"
Manufactrers can say whatever they want in their literature regarding the warranty. They still have to comply with the law.

Here are 2 links for useful information:

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=7253

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/default.asp?id=8034
 
#6 ·
Although the law states they can't void the warranty for mods without proof, the burdon is soley on you to prove it. They will throw lawyers and engineers at you, so the likelyhood of you winning is low.

Real Example:
Car has severe hesitation problems. Car taken 11 times under warranty to four different dealerships, but can't find problem. Other owners with same problem find solution. Replace plugs, increase plug torque. Car works right for the first time. 10 months later company comes up with the same solution. 2 months later 'new' plug backs out, strips threads, munches overcoil. Warranty denied for aftermarket parts (read new plugs). Went to arbitration. They sent a lawyer/engineer. Killed him on all techincal issues. Lost due to a technicality. I had to bring my car in within one month, not 2 months.

I lost arbitration with a very strong case, plenty of experience on cars, a technical degree. It is not worth fighting unless you have $10k to throw at a laywer. All that for 20hp? I'd say it is not worth it.
 
#9 ·
bbsilver - 1/29/2004 12:57 PM

Although the law states they can't void the warranty for mods without proof, the burdon is soley on you to prove it. They will throw lawyers and engineers at you, so the likelyhood of you winning is low.

Real Example:
Car has severe hesitation problems. Car taken 11 times under warranty to four different dealerships, but can't find problem. Other owners with same problem find solution. Replace plugs, increase plug torque. Car works right for the first time. 10 months later company comes up with the same solution. 2 months later 'new' plug backs out, strips threads, munches overcoil. Warranty denied for aftermarket parts (read new plugs). Went to arbitration. They sent a lawyer/engineer. Killed him on all techincal issues. Lost due to a technicality. I had to bring my car in within one month, not 2 months.

I lost arbitration with a very strong case, plenty of experience on cars, a technical degree. It is not worth fighting unless you have $10k to throw at a laywer. All that for 20hp? I'd say it is not worth it.
Your experience is different from most of the people I know. While I do know people who have been threatened everyone I know ended up winning w/o having to go to arbitration. If you were to have to fight do not go to arbitration it is the benefit of the dealership. You want to go to court and get in front of a Jury. Your chance of winning and getting a more beneficial settlement is much higher.

That being said it is a risk when you modify your car. Just don't roll over and play dead.
 
#10 ·
I definately didn't roll over. I fought back. The problem might have been the arbitrator. I knew I was in trouble when she asked what torque (as in wrench) was, and having to correct her spelling (tork).

As for modifying my car. It was bone stock, except the plugs.

Going to court would have been a minimum of $10k, several months of work on my part, and all for a $6000 Honda repair (cost me $300 and two weekends). Small claims won't work, because you are in front of a judge not a jury. I should have done it out of principle.

I did get Honda back though. Being the first on the block with an S2000, everyone asks me how I like it. To date I have discouraged 8 people from buying one. I cost them more in business then it would have been just to fix the car.

I maybe more jaded than most on this issue, but I think I have a good reason to be. Just be careful and make sure you can return to stock. That's my advice.
 
#11 ·
bbsilver, I was not implying that you just rolled over. That was my advice for anyone that gets crap from the dealership.

When I first started looking for my new car I had it narrowed down to the SLK32 and an M Roadster. I had a dealer offer me a great deal on an S2000. I figured what the heck, I will take it out for a spin. It was a fun tossable car, but overall is no where near the car that the MB or the BMW are. Of course the S2000 I could have paid cash for and it was ~$13k less than the BMW and ~$22k less than the MB. But I do not regret my decision to get the SLK32 for a minute.
 
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