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Brake improvements

6K views 40 replies 12 participants last post by  LWB250 
#1 ·
If I can't afford to do all at once, what is the best improvement for the money as far as stopping power and taking out pedal travel?

Stainless steel lines, pads, drilled/slotted rotors?

I know calipers would be big help but most costly, will 99 brembo factory be a direct bolt on to 98?

Thanks for any insight.
 
#3 ·
MY 99+ front calipers are bolt on, but require the purchase of the larger rotors.

If you are thinking of replacing your rotors to chase brake performance with the small setup, think really hard about getting the bigger MY 99+ caliper/rotor setup first. Even with a stellar small rotor setup with all good parts, you may not be as pleased and will be out the cost of: new small rotors, SS brake lines (that don't fit the bigger Brembo calipers) and pads.

Drilled or slotted rotors are mostly cosmetic (fad) for our car's level of performance and use. Get them if you want, but they don't provide any performance benefit.
 
#4 ·
Thanks very much, didn't know it requires larger rotors.

Will consider the 99+ setup possibly, best to locate used 99+ calipers and then order 99+ instead of 98 rotors? Are all 99+ calipers equal or some bigger/brembo?

I have 18" r230 wheels so should be ok with larger 334mm? rotors instead of 300? Also, read something it would require new style lower control arms to clear?
 
#5 ·
If you switch to a 99 set-up just order rotors for 99-02 and brake lines for 99-02 they are all the same, I think the Silver Aroows came with cross drilled rotors but don't hold me to that. Also you will need longer lugs for the rear calipers because they are vented hence the are thicker and the old lugs won't reach. You can pick these up at the MB dealer, you want hardened steel ones not just the run of the mill stuff you pick up at a home improvement store. I was able to install these with the old style LCAs but YMMV.

17" or 18" wheels will clear just fine. Another thing to remember is you will need a bigger spare if you have a 16" spare, it will still work on the rears but not the fronts.
 
#6 ·
MY 1998 lower control arms are the modern version that works with the larger MY 99+ rotors (at least my 97 SL600 did).

All MY 99+ calipers are made by Brembo (they are all for 334mm rotors, its like MB finally figured out that the brakes were too small or something). There's even a Brembo name cast in small letters on the backside of the calipers.

My 97 SL600 rear calipers are the same one as used by the MY 99+ and were vented, so I didn't need to upgrade my lug bolts. This is an odd detail by Pete S, as the part of the rotor that rests against the rear hub is the same thickness no matter if the rotor is vented or solid. I'd try your existing bolts first before buying new ones.

The good news is, SA rotors cost about $100 each, are a good product and can be picked up at the dealership.

Use Akebono pads and stainless steel brake flex lines.

My car went from so-so braking with the small setup, to actually being able to reliably stop the car quickly if needed. Best upgrade for your car.
 
#7 ·
...My 97 SL600 rear calipers are the same one as used by the MY 99+ and were vented, so I didn't need to upgrade my lug bolts. This is an odd detail by Pete S, as the part of the rotor that rests against the rear hub is the same thickness no matter if the rotor is vented or solid. I'd try your existing bolts first before buying new ones...
I guess I should say that if you currently have rear vented rotors you are fine with the existing bolts but we found that using the vented brakes the caliper was slightly different from the solid rear disc and the bolts did not reach at least this was my experience.
 
#8 ·
do any of these changes affect the LONG pedal travel? I'm used to it now, but compared to my 97 E420, they are definitely different. Not that one is better than the other, but different. I'd say the SL is likely easier to modulate but in a panic, it does have more pedal travel.

I've heard the late 97 on with Brake Assist is more responsive.
 
#9 ·
Stainless steel hoses will go a long way to get the "sponginess" our of the system. Of all the MBs I've owned over the years, my R129 has the spongiest brakes of any MB I have driven. Reading through the forum this seems to be the case with this model for some reason.

Dan
 
#11 · (Edited)
Helpful info re: cross-drilled vented rotors.

I have been very pleased with the Akebono ceramic pads I installed just after getting the car on July 1 of 2013. Great stopping power and no black dust to clean off every other day like the crummy semi-metallic¹ things that were one there...


-----------------------------------------------------
¹- Many semi-metallic pads use steel fibers in the pad--almost all pads used by "quickie" brake shops, and even some brand name absurdly expensive units. This and a bit of iron powder from the rotor is what causes the nasty crap you see on nearly every car on the road.

Bring a magnet when buying brake pads, if it grabs on the pad material run away--there are non-ferrous semi-metallic pads but I have found ceramic pads to be best (check them with the magnet too, just to be sure).
 
#17 ·
x2 on the Akebono's. They are one of the few non OEM parts I will use. Have them on my SL and E420. Klaus rebuilt top cylinders are another. And the R129 motoring underhood replacement pad is another non OEM. Other than that it is pretty much stick with OEM.
 
#12 ·
All really good posts.

Yes, the 97 cars came with Brake Assist, but heaven help them if the master cylinder needs replacement. Just another expensive component that needs to be serviced religiously (brake fluid flush EVERY 2 years) to avoid the high cost of replacement through neglect or inactivity.

With all the mentioned parts: 99+ calipers, Akebono pads, SA rotors, fresh fluid, stainless steel flex lines AND a 17 inch spare; the R129 does stop much better and has improved pedal feel, but its still the vaguest brake pedal of all my cars. And for a 2.25 ton car, it can be a little eerie sometimes.

Once again, this is the best improvement you can make for your car, especially if you have the even heavier and more powerful V12.
 
#13 ·
Mine not spongy

I have to say, the brakes on my 2000 SL280 (MY 99) are not spongy. Very powerful and progressive. Feel much the same as on the S211, so maybe I'm just conditioned to the Merc effect!

I hadn't realised how substantial they were until I took the wheels off to put locking bolts on and realised the rears are vented. I was aware of the big calipers at the front with the change to 17" wheels.

Very impressive brakes.

My only experience with s/s lines is with motorbikes. I've only ever changed the front ones because the difference in efficiency can make it easy to cause lock up issues at the rear. Not a problem with ABS though.
 
#18 ·
Chewa, you have the better brake setup and a lighter powertrain so your brakes should have good performance (which you've taken notice of, lucky you).

MB says DOT 3, but there's no reason to not use DOT 4 brake fluid. You use as much fluid as it takes until it bleeds clean (figure 1.5L). Some folks use MOTUL red fluid and then switch to the ATE blue on alternating fluid changes to make the changeover more apparent.

Never use silicon based fluid.

Stupid BAS controller.
 
#25 ·
very good article I agree. and note it does not list DOT4+

Could very well be that the recomended fluid is based on a euro spec with no equiv. DOT, so MB and others show DOT4 since the MB fluid is the same base stock and compatible with DOT4.

AFAIK, at least in the U.S. they would need to specify a DOT approved fluid.

Interestingly, ATE had the ATE "blue" fluid available for a while in the U.S. until DOT informed them it can't be sold in the U.S. since in the U.S. brake fluid must be clear or amber colored.
 
#29 ·
ATE web site has good info on spectrum of brake fluids & applications.

Super Racing Blue is now 'Type 200'. All same except not blue anymore.

Site also has info on viscosity & change (flush) interval.

I didn't even see DOT 5.1 cited. They just cite DOT 4 or DOT 4+

Only notable change is recommendation of new SL6 product for faster response time of ESP & ASR. Viscosity of SL6 is about 1/2 of Type 200.

I was surprised that SL has 1 yr change interval. That's a bit too short.
 
#31 ·
Swany it's hard to say how much of a difference the lines made because I have no base line to compare it to. I installed the bigger calipers off the 99-02s, new rotors from R1, new pads from Akebono, new brake lines from Paragon and fresh ATE Racing Blue brake fluid all at once so the feel of the brakes improved but I have no idea how much of that improvement came from the lines.

I have installed stainless steel braided lines in other cars and the result usually is a stiffer brake pedal, not loads and loads stiffer but a noticeable difference at least to me.

HTH
 
#33 ·
Pete, I just installed the Paragon performance stainless steel brake lines and I would say it's difficult to tell any pedal difference between these new hoses and the stock ones. These new brake lines are very high quality though and a great replacement for the older flex lines. One thing I did learn and would like to pass on to others considering Paragon brake lines for their SL is to choose option A for the female line fittings. I selected option B fittings and the hex head pulls thought the slotted bracket hole so a washer (14mm ID) is required but a thin washer is needed because it's difficult to thread the brake fittings with a standard thickness washer, especially with the rear fittings. The standard thickness washer also causes the u-shaped spring clip to spread apart because of reduced distance on the other side of the bracket when the washer is installed. Installation would have been much easier with the correct fittings or if I had had the thin washers available.
 
#35 ·
I just ordered a set of SS lines from Paragon and will report back my findings.

As far as I know, the brake hoses are original on my car, so it will be interesting to see if there is a noticeable difference in pedal feel after replacement.

As others have stated, on other vehicles I have installed SS lines on, there was a definite difference in pedal feel (firmer) with SS hoses.

Dan
 
#36 · (Edited)
Update

Finally got my brakes done, not night and day but about 30-40% firmer/shorter pedal

Akebono front and rear pads $90
Front stainless lines $55
Flushed and power bled Dot 4
$250 labor including fluid and turning rotors

Basically $400, pad light just starting to come on, was time to flush fluid
They couldn't get off the rear lines so still have original lines so probably not as good as possible but still much better.

If someone wants to purchase just rear Paragon stainless lines, let me know. I believe they fit 96-98.
 
#38 ·
slightly off topic, but Dan, did you ever find someone to fix the soft top controller module??
 
#41 ·
Good news/bad news:

The front right brake line fitting is buggered up, so I left the fronts alone. I figured it would be potentially dangerous to change one and not the other, so the fronts will remain the original hoses for now.

I'm going to look into a replacement line, but the thing I hate about brake lines is that the replacements are unbent, and these lines have a LOT of bends in them.

I've bent lines before and have a hand bender, but it's not something I'm keen to do.

Good news is that the backs went on without issue and I was able to get the whole system flushed with fresh ATE fluid.

So it wasn't all bad, thank goodness.

I'll report back on what the primary driver says about the brakes after she drives the car. Being that only the back lines got replaced, I'm doubting there will be much of a difference.

Dan
 
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