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R129 Buyer's Guide - Help needed

13K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  bsclifton 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi there folks,

As you might know, I put together a buyer's guide using a lot of the information I found here, the official 129 club, in books and magazines, or from members of MBCA. That guide is online here:
https://mb.clifton.io/r129/

I've approached the editor of "The Star" magazine about writing a buyer's guide for the R129 and I got approval. I need your help to fact check my work and also see if I missed anything. Here's what I have so far:

Good reasons for buying a R129 SL:
• Right now you get a lot of value for your dollar. These are outstanding cars.
• With 4 airbags and a roll bar, these cars are extremely safe convertibles.
• The trunk is pretty spacious compared to other convertibles.
• Cars without ADS or ADS II have reliable and easy to maintain suspensions.
• Parts are readibly available and components are generally simple to repair.

Good reasons for NOT buying a R129 SL:
• Can only hold 2 people; back area can not fit anyone safely.
• Limited trunk space compared to a sedan.
• It has a hard top and a soft top; you need someone to help take off the hard top.
• Model year 1993 – 1995 can have wiring harness issues which are expensive to fix.
• SL600 with ADS or ADS II can be extremely expensive to maintain.
• If the car has staggered wheels, tires can be expensive. A set of Michelin PS2s costs about $1600.


Checkpoints
1.Does the car have a wiring harness issue?
If the car is model year 1993, 1994, or 1995 more than likely there was or will be a wiring harness issue. It’s a known problem but a recall was never issued. Repairing this can cost several thousand dollars (unless you do it yourself; parts cost roughly $500 - $700). If you are considering a 1993 - 1995 model year and can’t verify if the harness was replaced, take the car to a good Mercedes-Benz mechanic. Someone that has worked with these cars a lot should be able to quickly tell and give an estimate if the harness needs replacement.

2. Does the car have a windscreen?
Starting with model year 1993, the windscreen (also called a draught-stop) is standard equipment. The windscreen snaps onto the roll bar and helps provide a super quiet ride when you have the top down. If the car has one you’ll find it in the trunk. Pop the trunk and you should see a compartment held by 3 straps. Un-strap those and you should see the windscreen, hopefully in good shape.

3. Does the car have a removable hard top? If the car you’re looking at does not have a hard top, you will have to find one that fits. The roofs for all R129s are not entirely interchangeable. Late model SLs have a much larger seal around the A-pillars and windshield surround.

4. Does the car have a panoramic roof? You’ll notice the very top is black and the rest is body colored. If the car is black, you’ll probably have to jump in to notice. Regardless, you can tell the difference in the hard tops from the outside. The panoramic roof has a more round and much smoother shape to it. Having the roof from the beginning is a huge plus; Buying the roof afterwards can cost anywhere from $500 - $2500 and you may have to match the paint and interior after that. I am not positive, but I think the panoramic roof is only compatible on model year 1995+ because of the seals.

5. The soft top and rollover bar When you look at the car you should always work the soft top and rollover bar several times and check for hydraulic leaks at the front A pillars by the visors and at the pistons that lift the top and soft top boot. In my experience the tops that are not exercised occasionally have a better chance of leaking.
You can tell if the soft top is original by examining it; when you look close, you should see a checkered pattern. You can also test to make sure the soft top still works well by trying to pour some water on it and see if any water makes its way through the plastic window. The canvas top comes in two pieces and just the rear with the plastic windows can be replaced if needed.

6. Is the car a special edition? There are several different special editions of the 129-body SL. These could significantly affect the long term value of the car. It’s possible the owner doesn’t know what they have. Here is a list of the editions to keep an eye out for:
Mille miglia, Designo edition, 40th Anniversary Roadster Edition (1997), Special Edition (1998), Final Edition (2000), SL Edition (2000), Silver arrow edition (2002).

7. Is the car an AMG model? Watch out because a lot of folks put fake AMG badges on the car. There are only 4 types of AMG modified SLs and they are rare. The SL55 (65 units made), the SL60 (633 units made), the SL70 (150 units made), and the SL73 (42 units made). Most of these cars live in Europe. Keep in mind; only 204,940 total units of the R129 SL were made so the AMG models are extremely rare and valuable. If the buyer is questionable, most likely it’s not really an AMG original.


Chronology: Dates of important specification changes
1994 models... were the first to have the new designation (e.g. 500 SL is now SL 500).

1996+ models... featured facelifts for the car:
• V8 and V12 upgraded to 5 speed electronic transmission; previous transmission was 4-speed.
• Bumper and side panels are now body color.
• Grill now only has 6 slats instead of 7.
• Front fender vents updated; 2 rounded slots instead of 3 squared slots (behind front wheels).
• Panoramic roof is now an option.
• Xenon HID headlamps standard on SL600, optional on SL500.
• Clear front turn signal indicators.
• Addition of side airbags.

1997+ models... featured:
• A new sensor can deactivate the passenger airbag when determined that the passenger seat held less than 26 pounds (for baby carrier). Also has a switch for disabling manually.
• "Sport" package became an option.
• Automatic rain-sensing windshield wipers standard
• Programmable garage door opener "HomeLink" transmitter built into the rear-view mirror
• Earlier climate control panel replaced with new larger LCD control panel

1999+ models... featured a second facelift occurred for models which included:
• V8 engine switched from M119 to M113.
• Body color door handles.
• Side mirrors more rounded, similar to the SLK.
• Soft Nappa leather seats replace the perforated leather seats.
• Tail lights with curved faces replacing the square stepped lights.
• New engine vanity cover.
• Instrument cluster now has chrome rings around each gauge.

2001 / 2002 models… include sport package standard.
 
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#6 ·
I would add that, at least for the 40th Anniversary Edition (which is my only frame of reference), there don't seem to be any pricing guides. For example, KBB will only list "1997" and not make any distinctions between the "regular" models and the Anniversary Edition. Makes it difficult to determine a value for them (do you price it as a regular 1997? does it retain better value than a regular 1997? etc). Oh, and the model badges are omitted for the 40th Anniversary Editions (both the 320 and 500).

Also, I think 5-speed gearboxes came in during the '97 model year.
 
#8 ·
Very useful information, thank you.

It would be handy to have actual build dates regards the wiring problems, in other words to know exactly when the problematical harness was introduced. It surely can't be as simple as December 1992 cars are OK but Jan 1993 are not. Likewise with 95 and 96 cars.

It would also be nice to know if there's an easy way to visually check the harness when inspecting a candidate for purchase. Having an experienced mech to hand isn't always practical.
 
#10 ·
Very interesting and informative article, well done.

Just one question on the AMG production numbers, I was always led to believe that the total for the SL60 was 300 with 49/50 of these being RH drive.

In this months Mercedes UK Club Magazine there are three SL60's for sale, 2 1995 at £15k & £18k and the other 1996 unpriced.

N T-J
 
#13 ·
It is not mentioned in your list but i think it is worth considering.

The blower regulator seems to be a part that fails every time and from all the threads and posts that i have read so far it concerns all models.
Seems to be a serious design flaw, in my car it has been replaced already 2 times.
One time by the dealer and one time by the previous owner.
When wil be the next time i ask you?

The advice would be to check all blower fan speeds before buying because the regulator itself is not exactly cheap and i think that future buyers have the right to know about it.
Not to mention the extra costs it brings if you will have it replaced by the dealership.

Hans.
 
#14 ·
Hi everyone, I'm a new member and thanks for the add. I have a 1998 SL600, R129 and I have a question for more information that I've been hearing about for several years. I have no idea if this is true or not and I can't seem to locate the correct answer. My son in law sent me the on line article in Concept Carz from December, 2008. The article claims that there were only (574) SL600, R129, with the V12 Engines built in 1998? Does anyone know if this is true or if there's another way to find out for sure? Here's the Link to the Article;

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z972/Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class.aspx
 
#15 ·
According to the book "MB SL 129-series" by Brian Long (Veloce), there were 821 SL600 built in calendar year 1998. This is not the same as model year, so depending on what you are interested in... It's plausible that approx 575 of these where for the US market.

Another trustworthy source, the book "MB The modern SL cars, vol 2" by Bernd S. Koehling (Benz-books.com), has the same number. So I think this is pretty accurate.
 
#16 ·
Hi Ruindr,
Thank you for the information. I'm not searching for one because I already have a 1998 SL R129. I was just hoping for more information other than the only source that I posted the article from. Conceptcarz.com
And hopefully mine fits in the correct calendar year. Do y'all have any idea how I can find out what calendar year my car was made in? I'm assuming it's most likely in the VIN Number and does anyone have any idea when these cars will hopefully start going up in value if all this is true? And where's the Location of the calendar year built?
Thanks again,
Phil
 
#22 ·
Glad I can help. For 1997, 1164 SL600 where produced. I would argue this has no effect on value vs 1998. The SL600 is now at the bottom of it's appreciation curve, starting to climb. Value is much more dependent on ownership and service history, and originality. The contradicting part is that R129's stored away not driven tends not to get better prices than cars that has been regularily driven and serviced.
 
#23 ·
Ruindr, Thank you again for checking the numbers for me. I've kept my car up to date with the maintenance and cosmetically. And I do nearly all the maintenance myself which I hope won't be a problem down the road when I or my kids eventually Sale the car. But that won't be anytime soon anyway.
Thanks again,
Phil in NC.
 
#24 ·
Some questions/comments:

- was the rear jump seat an option on any US models? Or would any non-gray-market r129 in the US with a jump seat be an aftermarket addition (like JJ Products on eBay)

- not so much a question, but the 3.2 m104 6-cylinder dogleg manual transmission is an interesting option, only on early r129, but surprisingly (to me) available on US models.

- I'm confident that AMG was still separate from MB at the dawn of the r129. So while it was not a factory option, there are "AMG models" besides the ones mentioned, and it seems they even show in the EPC with some AMG 6.0 conversions of the m119 (a hybrid m117/119, a m119 with the crankshaft of a 5.6 for a longer stroke and obviously different Pistons and rods. I believe MB supports this engine started by AMG before it was acquired by MB.

- I also believe that the wiring problems began with the translation from k-jet to motronic (or whatever you call it). In 1992 the w140 was using that injection system while the r129 still used k-jet. So a 1992 m119 r129 will not have the wiring issue while a 1992 m119 w140 will have the wiring issue (unless the harness(es) has been replaced). I am not sure what years of the 6 cylinder have the issue.

- even though there may be some difference in the top seals, it seems many forum members have been able to use tops across the 1995 threshold. I have not noticed the difference.

Those are some things that came to mind for me while I read this. Great thread!
 
#25 ·
- was the rear jump seat an option on any US models?
No.

...the 3.2 m104 6-cylinder dogleg manual transmission is an interesting option...
A manual transmission was offered in the U.S. on the 300SL but not on the SL320.

I am not sure what years of the 6 cylinder have the issue.
MY1994 - MY1995 SL320.

- even though there may be some difference in the top seals, it seems many forum members have been able to use tops across the 1995 threshold. I have not noticed the difference.
The 1995 threshold is insignificant compared to the '91/'92 threshold. The front seal on the newer top has considerably more mass rendering it impossible to install on an older car without changing seals. The older top will install on a newer car, but the fit will be poor, and a large gap will exist along the leading edge of the top (picture).
 

Attachments

#26 ·
distributor caps to coil per plug

Hi there folks,

As you might know, I put together a buyer's guide using a lot of the information I found here, the official 129 club, in books and magazines, or from members of MBCA. That guide is online here:
http://www.brianclifton.com/mb/cars/r129/buyers-guide/

I've approached the editor of "The Star" magazine about writing a buyer's guide for the R129 and I got approval. I need your help to fact check my work and also see if I missed anything. Here's what I have so far:

Good reasons for buying a R129 SL:
• Right now you get a lot of value for your dollar. These are outstanding cars.
• With 4 airbags and a roll bar, these cars are extremely safe convertibles.
• The trunk is pretty spacious compared to other convertibles.
• Cars without ADS or ADS II have reliable and easy to maintain suspensions.
• Parts are readibly available and components are generally simple to repair.

Good reasons for NOT buying a R129 SL:
• Can only hold 2 people; back area can not fit anyone safely.
• Limited trunk space compared to a sedan.
• It has a hard top and a soft top; you need someone to help take off the hard top.
• Model year 1993 – 1995 can have wiring harness issues which are expensive to fix.
• SL600 with ADS or ADS II can be extremely expensive to maintain.
• If the car has staggered wheels, tires can be expensive. A set of Michelin PS2s costs about $1600.


Checkpoints
1.Does the car have a wiring harness issue?
If the car is model year 1993, 1994, or 1995 more than likely there was or will be a wiring harness issue. It’s a known problem but a recall was never issued. Repairing this can cost several thousand dollars (unless you do it yourself; parts cost roughly $500 - $700). If you are considering a 1993 - 1995 model year and can’t verify if the harness was replaced, take the car to a good Mercedes-Benz mechanic. Someone that has worked with these cars a lot should be able to quickly tell and give an estimate if the harness needs replacement.

2. Does the car have a windscreen?
Starting with model year 1993, the windscreen (also called a draught-stop) is standard equipment. The windscreen snaps onto the roll bar and helps provide a super quiet ride when you have the top down. If the car has one you’ll find it in the trunk. Pop the trunk and you should see a compartment held by 3 straps. Un-strap those and you should see the windscreen, hopefully in good shape.

3. Does the car have a removable hard top? If the car you’re looking at does not have a hard top, you will have to find one that fits. The roofs for all R129s are not entirely interchangeable. Late model SLs have a much larger seal around the A-pillars and windshield surround.

4. Does the car have a panoramic roof? You’ll notice the very top is black and the rest is body colored. If the car is black, you’ll probably have to jump in to notice. Regardless, you can tell the difference in the hard tops from the outside. The panoramic roof has a more round and much smoother shape to it. Having the roof from the beginning is a huge plus; Buying the roof afterwards can cost anywhere from $500 - $2500 and you may have to match the paint and interior after that. I am not positive, but I think the panoramic roof is only compatible on model year 1995+ because of the seals.

5. The soft top and rollover bar When you look at the car you should always work the soft top and rollover bar several times and check for hydraulic leaks at the front A pillars by the visors and at the pistons that lift the top and soft top boot. In my experience the tops that are not exercised occasionally have a better chance of leaking.
You can tell if the soft top is original by examining it; when you look close, you should see a checkered pattern. You can also test to make sure the soft top still works well by trying to pour some water on it and see if any water makes its way through the plastic window. The canvas top comes in two pieces and just the rear with the plastic windows can be replaced if needed.

6. Is the car a special edition? There are several different special editions of the 129-body SL. These could significantly affect the long term value of the car. It’s possible the owner doesn’t know what they have. Here is a list of the editions to keep an eye out for:
Mille miglia, Designo edition, 40th Anniversary Roadster Edition (1997), Special Edition (1998), Final Edition (2000), SL Edition (2000), Silver arrow edition (2002).

7. Is the car an AMG model? Watch out because a lot of folks put fake AMG badges on the car. There are only 4 types of AMG modified SLs and they are rare. The SL55 (65 units made), the SL60 (633 units made), the SL70 (150 units made), and the SL73 (42 units made). Most of these cars live in Europe. Keep in mind; only 204,940 total units of the R129 SL were made so the AMG models are extremely rare and valuable. If the buyer is questionable, most likely it’s not really an AMG original.


Chronology: Dates of important specification changes
1994 models... were the first to have the new designation (e.g. 500 SL is now SL 500).

1996+ models... featured facelifts for the car:
• V8 and V12 upgraded to 5 speed electronic transmission; previous transmission was 4-speed.
• Bumper and side panels are now body color.
• Grill now only has 6 slats instead of 7.
• Front fender vents updated; 2 rounded slots instead of 3 squared slots (behind front wheels).
• Panoramic roof is now an option.
• Xenon HID headlamps standard on SL600, optional on SL500.
• Clear front turn signal indicators.
• Addition of side airbags.

1997+ models... featured:
• A new sensor can deactivate the passenger airbag when determined that the passenger seat held less than 26 pounds (for baby carrier). Also has a switch for disabling manually.
• "Sport" package became an option.
• Automatic rain-sensing windshield wipers standard
• Programmable garage door opener "HomeLink" transmitter built into the rear-view mirror
• Earlier climate control panel replaced with new larger LCD control panel

1999+ models... featured a second facelift occurred for models which included:
• V8 engine switched from M119 to M113.
• Body color door handles.
• Side mirrors more rounded, similar to the SLK.
• Soft Nappa leather seats replace the perforated leather seats.
• Tail lights with curved faces replacing the square stepped lights.
• New engine vanity cover.
• Instrument cluster now has chrome rings around each gauge.

2001 / 2002 models… include sport package standard.
A minor change worth adding is the change from distributor caps/rotors and 2 coils to COP(coil on plug) ignition system.:)
 
#27 ·
Hi folks,

Apologies that my site is in-flux. A lot has changed over the years- I sold my domain, brianclifton.com (to a different Brian Clifton :p), moved the content to benzwiki.com (which eventually expired and was purchased by someone else- whoops)

I can't edit the original link, but I have restored a copy of the guide to https://mb.clifton.io/r129/. I am friends with the other Brian Clifton so he's put up some redirects for me as a courtesy

When I have free time, I'll try my best to restore download links and such. I sold my 129 back in 2012, but I still love them :)
 
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