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Why Mercedes Are Money Pit Machines - by Scotty Kilmer ...

15K views 38 replies 15 participants last post by  Stereolab42 
#1 ·
Why Mercedes Are Money Pit Machines:

He makes some good points - not so much about our R107s but mostly about the 1990 and later models.
I did not know about that issue with Brake Pads.

 
#5 · (Edited)
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Dude's too full of himself.
He is!

Re the lip on the rotors. If rotors are relatively smooth and within thickness spec, no problem putting new pads on old rotors. They won't touch the lip anyway. But if there is a significant lip, rotors are probably done anyway. There is sometimes rust on the outer edge - I have just removed that with a coarse emery paper. Just flakes off.

Our 98 E320 is one of the earliest computerized Benzes. Had it for 16 years and 120k miles. Very few problems that only a Benz would have had. No computer problems.

What the guy says does make some sense, but it applies to most modern cars. Not just Benzes. And even here in Canada, our shops don't charge $160/hr. In late 2016 it was C$120/hr (US$90/hr)

We bought an extended warranty with our 2014 GLK. I also eliminated all the frills like sunroof, back up cameras, nav system etc all of which can go wrong and costs $$$; yet have nothing to do with getting you from a to b.

If there is a next time, we will do same again or lease. I don't want to be exposed to the high cost of maintaining these modern cars.

What I love about our OLD Benzes, is that they are simple, simple to repair and there are reasonably priced aftermarket parts available.
 
#3 ·
Meh, he's just listing out all of the reasons I do my own car repair. $160/hr is a joke, especially since I enjoy doing it!

I doubt it really takes 2.3 hours to replace a computer. The whole concept of "shop" hours really cracks me up. How much we want to bet that those numbers are just gross estimates of a recently certified tech who isn't familiar with what needs to be removed?
 
#4 ·
After owning an r129 and an r107, mostly for reasons similar to what Scotty Kilmer goes over in this video, I choose the r107. It's a tough choice with r129 possessing few of the critical flaws we find in our R107's like my rust free r129 vs every r/c107 having some rust to deal with. I just feel like the r129 are time bombs with all kinds of systems waiting to fail, like the hydraulic top seals, or wiring / electronic issues. I had one of the simplest, a 1992 500sl that was the fastest car I've ever owned and a blast to drive hard. But man, was I ever happy to get rid of it. I would assume this logic applies to all MB. More features. More problems.

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#9 ·
I can't find the source, but I recall that some Mercedes shops had a special tool for doing just that. I had the lips ground off once by an independent shop when I was away from home and was getting vibration. Pads were catching on rust on lip. I think they started car up on hoist and used a hand grinder.

In the chassis shop manual, they show a method for cleaning rotors using abrasive pads. These pads overlap the lip and would probably not remove any significant lip. https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Chassis/42-260.pdf

Used rotors are often glazed and need surface treatment anyway before installing new pads. If that meant getting them machined, I just bought new rotors for front so as to not waste time getting job done. Rears, I just sanded a bit. They don't do much anyway!
 
#14 ·
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It's a non-issue Adam. Brake rotors have unswept surface area both near the circumference and at the center. ANY brake lathe can, and must be, set to cut said lip first. That he thinks it is some sort of performance or design fail is idiocy.
I was gonna say. This guy comes off as a try hard first and foremost with all of the shouting. I can generally forgive stuff like that but what I don't care for in the video especially are embellishments from auto mechanics which is what this guy is doing.

I've called out mechanics in person before when they've offered bad advice. Automotive technology isn't complicated and after seeing some many half assed repairs done by "professional" shops in the past it irks me to the moon when I hear it given.

His entire channel and other video advice is suspect given what I've seen here. People like him are the reason I got into wrenching.
 
#10 ·
I have yet to see a design where the brake pad extends past edge of the rotor.

As far as electronics used in cars that will apply to all newer cars., just luxury high end cars have more of it. Eventually things will break. The real problem is that some of the ASICs (application specific integrates circuits) and microprocessors eventually will be out of production hence the modules these parts are used in, will no longer be available.

So the future of collector cars will be interesting.
 
#16 ·
He is a fool.
Every car I have ever seen has brake pads that stop short of the edge.As the rotors wear they leave a lip,so what? It does not cause a problem.
Recessed lug bolts,who cares? Nothing goes wrong with them.
Low profile tyres are not exclusive to MB.
Every expensive car depreciates,,,so I let someone else own it first.
I do my own work and find the parts very reasonably priced.
Never had a major problem with my MBs ,and they are without a doubt the best cars on the road.
This guy thinks he knows better than teams of experienced German engineers...I doubt it.
 
#17 ·
Best way to purchase a Mercedes is to purchase a used one - AFTER you have done some research. Even with the R107 model we have witnessed the infamous single row timing chain, weak Sub Frames, and crazy idiot designed Climate Control. With the R129 we have witnessed 1993-1995 wiring where the insulation deteriorates causing electrical problems.

Every car has problems and proud as Mercedes is of their Engineering and the way they Market that perception in the Consumers Mind, it has put out some turd Engineering designs.
 
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#19 ·
Ditto with CV axle split boots ... a lot of Mechanics believe that its less costly to replace the whole axle than to take the axle apart and replace the rubber boot. Personally I have had success installing the rubber cam shell boot that you glue together.
 
#22 ·
I agree with a lot of what Scotty Kilmer says, but it is true that he significantly discredited himself with the dumb brake rotor comment. Low profile tires are usually unique to high-end cars. Base Toyota Camrys and Honda Civics don't have them although they are becoming more and more prevalent. I think that after watching this video, it doesn't make sense to take this as a criticism of Mercedes Benz in general, but rather high-end vehicles with lots of bells and whistles. Mercedes just is a marque that is known for its high end cars. They are becoming more and more like every other brand though, as they are all just global corporations now architecting their products to maximize profits repeat new car purchasers.


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#24 · (Edited)
Just admit it!!! Scotty Kilmer is right!

Stop picking on the details. Mercedes are expensive to buy new and will cost you an arm and a leg to have it maintained and repaired.

I couldn't be happier! I can pick up quality used ones for 10 cents on the dollar :smile. So far, I'm able to do 99% of my repairs with the help of this Forum, YouTube and the internet. The only thing I had to paid for so far is an alignment.
 
#25 ·
It is what it is. If you insist on a car that has every gadget known then you have to pay the price upfront and in upkeep. If anyone wants a cheap Mercedes they can find them but if you don't know how to find the hacks you are going to be making that cheap Mercedes very expensive. Breakers yards are full or these cars and other makes like Lexus that have become economically nonviable. One of the benefits of the early 107 is the 'lack' of fancy gadgets... Just a cast iron lump at one end and a wheel at each corner... (I won't mention the gas tanker that always appears in the rear view mirror).
 
#26 · (Edited)
I've been toying with purchasing an R129 Mercedes - preferably one with the 5-speed transmission, without the problematic wiring harness, and with the OBD2 diagnostic port. I know the R129 is much more complex than the R107s and I might be making a mistake purchasing one. I think the M119 and M120 V8 and V12 engines are pretty much bullet-proof along with the Transmission. I know the automated soft top can be problematic but there are sources for DIYers to fix it. Trim parts are hard to come by and pricey like with the R107, and like the R107 you just do not see R129s in the Junk Yard - only have seen one and it was a roll over. What other issues are there with R129's that have a high probability to give problems?
 
#28 ·
I don't know how you guys enjoy cars from the 90s+. They all look like lame jelly beans to me. The 90s in particular have the same blocky corners of the 80s but the change in headlight appearances just ruins the look for me. The r129 just looks lame in comparison to the r107. Doesn't have that "old car" charm that a good r107 does. I have people constantly complimenting me on my car. I don't think anyone would say the same for a mid 90s Merc.

The mid 2000s things started to come around in terms of style, but by then you have the craptastic computer nightmares. I had a Saab which was absolute crap which again was caused by a half arsed GM/Cadillac dealership mechanics when under warranty and a previous owner who babied the thing instead of pushing it to the limit (bad parts didn't break under warranty). That thing threw so many f*cking codes I contemplated getting an OBD2 simulator to pass inspection.

The base model Prius I got in Europe was a good car. No way in hell i'd be able to afford anything else with the laughably expensive insurance and road taxes. I mocked prius driver's previously, but damn Toyota made a good car there. That thing had cloth seats, radio, and functioning hvac. That's it!

I fear for the future of collector cars. I'd say late 80s/early 90s was when the electronics became multi layer PCB boards which require all sorts of dr doom style machines to repair.

It's heart wrenching to see this happen. I don't lust or have any desire to buy a new car outright. I heard there was some legislation out there which allows smaller car manufacturers to skirt emissions rules and make older style vehicles (dmc 12 guys). I hope we have a revival of non computerized cars with good looking bodies.
 
#30 ·
The r129 just looks lame in comparison to the r107. Doesn't have that "old car" charm that a good r107 does. I have people constantly complimenting me on my car. I don't think anyone would say the same for a mid 90s Merc.

I can tell you that I had a lot of neighbors say "now THAT'S a good looking car" when they saw my r129 after lots of 107's and 108s hanging around my house. I thought the comment was strange, but the r129 does have a very good look, even if it is not "vintage". I would agree that the 80's-90's are when chrome bumpers disappeared.

But the advances are undeniable. I got better gas mileage in my r129 which is heavier and faster than any older MB I owned. The only exception would be the MPG that's a few MPG better with my 1985 280sl 5-speed if driven like an old lady.

The R129 is definitely still a DIY car too, there's just a lot more to "DO" IMO.
 
#29 ·
The nadir of "high-tech hell" has to be the R230-era and its 3000 PSI ABC suspension. When I knew I wanted an older MB convertible I took a good, long look at these cars because you can find SL55s and SL65s in pristine condition with low miles at laughably rock-bottom prices. I quickly found out the reason why... repair bills regularly in the 5 figures (for giggles see the infamous Edmunds CL65 long-term road test: https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/cl-class/2005/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html). Since then though I think MB has gotten back on track with reliability, but who knows how replaceable all these computerized parts, screens, and control units will be in 30 years.
 
#36 ·
Your point about the SL55AMG being dirt cheap is well founded as are the reasons, stupid service and repair costs but there are people out there willing to take the gamble.

Not sure what this guy does for a living, something to do with Jalopnik but he has a series of cars including an SL55 AMG which he paid below $9K for... I admit he is a little ham fisted and reckless but if you look through some of these video's he does demonstrate that with a little research and some basic skills you can do a lot to make even these exotic cars more affordable.
 
#32 ·
We have owned a 98 E320 for 16 years . It likely shares some parts with R129s of the same vintage. Luckily, we have not had much in the way of problems. But reading the forums, others have. And they are often very difficult for a DIYer to diagnose. Even Star diagnostics don't pinpoint the problems.

One problem, is the CANBUS system. I am sure it is a wonderful technological advance. But when things start going wrong, cause can be anything on the network. Sunroof or perhaps mirror controls may stop working but in end it is a door switch module that is on same network that is the culprit. No using a DVM to troubleshoot the problem!
 
#33 ·
One would not have expected problems like this with a $100K car. Mercedes "quality" is a marketing myth. Its full of holes where some things are high quality and some things are just plain Vega and Pinto cheap.
 
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#34 ·
Fonzi, you dumped that tired old R129, can you provide us some pointers on how to selling a tired old Mercedes?
Most car people I know are even scared of well sorted Mercedes.
 
#37 ·
Most car people I know are even scared of well sorted Mercedes.
The answer may be that the people who you know at least have some knowledge of cars.

There are others who will buy a nice convertible, so long as it is red!

I am at the stage where any new car we own will have to be under warranty, regardless of make. Otherwise leased for 3-4 years.
 
#35 ·
Also Fonzi, now that you have owned an R129, is it a car you would prefer over a similar conditioned R107? I wonder if once I got an R129 that I would be disgusted with it and want to go back to the R107s.
 
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