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'83 380 SL ignition tumbler remove

7K views 38 replies 7 participants last post by  Jyuma 
#1 ·
Hello all

New to the forum. I used the search feature but couldn't find a good match to my problem. Forgive me if I missed it.

I have a 1983 380 SL that I bought new in 1983. Yes I'm the original owner. At one point I noticed that acceleration was poor, upon further checking I noticed the exhaust system (under the car) was glowing a dull cherry red. You could barely notice it in the daytime but at night it was obvious. Being that I owned another car I could use, I put the Mercedes in the garage intending to take a look at the problem first chance I got... that was 15 years ago. :smile

I finally got around to it last week but much to my surprise my key(s) wouldn't turn the ignition. I could turn to position 1 (unlock the steering column) but I could not turn all the way to position 2 (accessories) and obviously not to "on" and "start". I went to my local dealer and had a new set of keys made. Good thing I found the Title or they wouldn't have made the keys. $115 dollars and two days later I had a new set of keys.... same problem. :frown

Frustrated, I took one of the old keys and clamped a vice-grip on it and forced the ignition to turn to the accessories position. I got a piece of bailing wire, ground an angle on the end and pushed it into the little hole that is supposed to free the ring that holds the tumbler in. No joy. I'm in the right spot, I can feel the wire go in when I push on it, but the ring refuses to turn. Youtube videos say you should "feel" when the retainer inside retracts but I don't detect anything but the wire (.063 diameter) going further in when I have the holes lined up right.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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#2 ·
Welcome to the forum.
You and I are special cases - I too am the original owner
of a 1983 380SL. This is a great forum to answer issues like the one you posted.

A stab at the problem ... could it be your Interlock is the problem?
The Interlock prevents the Steering Wheel from
moving until you successfully turn the Ignition Key to
the Accessories position. Try jiggling your Steering Wheel left and right
and simultaneously turning your Ignition Key and see
if that works.
 
#5 ·
Thank you for your response Carl.
The interlock is not the problem. The key turns to the accessory position and the interlock releases the steering wheel.

My problem is that I can't get the tumbler to release by pressing a stiff wire into the little hole provided. :frown

I even tried pushing a small flat blade screw driver in the hole. It goes in but the outer ring still won't release. I'll try vibrating it and let you know.

Ed
 
#3 ·
If Carl's suggestion does not work and you do need to start pulling the cylinder etc. out then you could try using your wire, get it lined up where you think it is going in and then get a pair of pliers and grab hold of the wire and try and push it in using those. When I got my new set up I had it all installed and then realized I had not connected the buzzer wire. To get it back apart I pushed the wire in, but it would not release. Used the pliers about 1/4 inch from the cylinder to give the wire a bit more of a shove and that did it. Lock pin part moved in enough I could get the outer cylinder to twist off again.

Maybe try a very light tap on the edge of the cylinder ring with a small hammer. Just to jar things loose from having sat for ages. Other than that there are a number of horror stories of drilling and cutting rings off I remember reading. Think I found the posts using: "ignition switch" or "steering lock" as the search term.
 
#4 ·
There should be three marks on the black cap. Turn key to mark number two. You should be able to feel the point where the wire goes in and depresses the release.If you sense it keep playing with the cap. I just did it with a small paper clip. Try rotating clockwise a bit then counter clockwise.
 
#6 ·
No joy... the tumbler won't come out.

I decided to remove the ignition switch. I found something on Google claiming that you need to remove the steering wheel and the instrument panel so you can get the ignition switch out. Is that true?
 
#7 ·
Wiggle the key around in the position 2 area and see if you are actually lined up all the way with the little hole itself and try pushing in the wire hard with a pair of pliers.

As Rowdie said, try wiggling the outer ring back and forth to see if it will loosen and release. On my new set I could not push in the wire by hand enough to get the thing to actually release all the way. When I grabbed it with pliers I was able to get a better grip and push it straight in more which released the mechanism.

If you are talking about removing the whole assembly from the steering column then you are going to need that outer ring housing off. I don't believe it will clear the dash without doing so.

If you are thinking that you maybe have a problem with the ignition switch (electrical part on the back) having some sort of issue then I'm not sure if you could get to that from underneath the dash if you take the bottom panel off. Maybe by feel/mirrors. Not the direction I went.

I followed the manual and pulled the steering wheel and cluster. Not that hard a job to do, at least on mine. Just mark the wheel for position inside and then pull it. On the cluster I took loads of pics with the cell so I could ensure I got everything put back where it came from on the back. Other than that, once removed, you have really good access to the whole assembly.

Keep banging on about Mercedes Source, but I remember seeing a video of exactly this sort of issue.

Think this is the one.
 
#9 ·
Photo.... I have pressed a wire into that little hole with the key in the accessory position a hundred times. I've used pliers to get a better grip... I've tried pushing for all I was worth, shaking, vibrating... I've wiggled, pleaded and ultimately cursed the day I bought a car with an impenetrable ignition lock (talk about overkill... can you say flat-bed). Nothing I do can get that tumbler to come out. And now the key won't come out. It came out all along but now it won't. It turns fine, but just won't come out. :(


I'm ready to take a saws-all to the lock. The instrument panel is out, I can see the little pin you need to press and it presses in just fine. The steering wheel lock is disengaged and I can pull the lock assembly away from the steering column up to the point where the front of the ignition lock hits the right side of the hole in the dashboard where the lock comes through.

Where is the best spot to start cutting? :confused:
 

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#10 ·
Totally understand your frustration. Been there on my 450 with the steering lock not wanting to clear the dash even with the cylinder and ring off. I still don't believe the assembly will clear without pulling the outer cup and key cylinder, but I guess you could try. What I had to do to get mine out which was to take the two bolts out of the brace for the steering column tube. If you printed out the service manual pages you should see where I'm talking. Behind the instrument cluster.

Anyway, I then pried down on the tube between the brace and tube on on the opposite side to the steering lock to get the tube to drop and sort of pivot so the ignition/steering lock pivoted sort of up. Hope that makes sense.

I held tension on the tube pivot prying and then twisted the ignition/steering lock assembly downward and it cleared the dash enough for me to get it out. Basically by my prying the steering tube/column down it pivoted the ignition assembly up in the hole and so I twisted the assembly so it went down. The "lifting" given by the column pivot gave it enough clearance to pivot the steering lock down and clear the dash. BUT.......that was with cylinder and lock ring off. As I said, I don't think you will clear at all with the lock and ring still on.

If the key will still turn then try wiggling it in and out to ensure correct engagement and turn it from start to finish while pushing your release wire in. Maybe it is all buggered in there and just not aligning correctly and releasing. Have the battery disconnected of course while working. That would be my last thought.

Otherwise, if you've not seen this already, you may be in this sort of boat to deal with it.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c107-sl-slc-class/2635858-560sl-steering-lock-removal.html

Here was my little hurdle. Nothing to what you are going though, but as you can see from the post above. Others have been there sadly.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c107-sl-slc-class/2813674-okay-okay-yet-another-steering-lock.html
 
#12 ·
That key in the photo is different to my '83 380SL. I don't think tumblers are available for the '83 any longer. If you are replacing everything it might be worth considering a later model ignition set. Tumblers etc are still available. I'm not sure they would fit but I don't see why not.
 
#13 ·
Sorry you are having such a struggle with it. What a pain!

I found as Aussiemerc said. Some of the older pieces are available, but the stumbler is the key cylinder.

Some have suggested getting some used tumblers out of similar vintage Mercedes and having them keyed. Just a matter of if your steering lock piece is still available or not.

The 560sl stuff is all available still. At least it was just recently. Mine is a 450sl, but the 560 stuff fit right in no issues. Only deal is now I have a different key for the ignition than I do for everything else. Guess I could order new door, trunk and glove box stuff, but I can live with it for the expense for now. I say I "guess" as not even researched if that is possible or not.

Only down side for me on the conversion is that I now need the larger trim ring that fits around the cylinder and these are NLA from MB last I checked.
 
#14 ·
Gringing progress

Mercedes has got to be kidding. What is the point in making an ignition switch/lock that is so impenetrable that working on it in a shop, with every tool in the world available, it takes this long to get that #@!%&&$^ lock assembly out? Aren't the windows made of glass? Didn't Mercedes weld a nice tow hook to the frame so that anybody could drag the car onto a flatbed in the dark of night? Doesn't this car come with a hardtop and a soft top? Yea, I think it does... it cost me 3 radios a generation ago. What is so damned important about the ignition switch that Mercedes had to cause this much grief for the rightful owners who just want to start their car?

Here is a photo of my ignition lock after 4 hours of grinding (and 4 grinding bits worn out).
 

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#15 ·
Four hours is nothing. Took me over two days. Sorry I did not take pics as I was as pissed as you. I used a Dremmel cut of wheel, several grinding stones, and cobalt drill bits. I even tried a slide hammer. I remember someone drilling small holes all around the black cap. Can't find that thread.

Good Luck.
 
#25 ·
End mills were a bust. Cut for about a minute before becoming dull.

I went to Harbor Freight and bought a set of large twist drills. I drilled (for oil... :grin) with a 1/2" drill bit and after a few minutes of violent shaking I noticed that the ignition switch came off the back of the lock mechanism. My first thought was that I drilled all the way through but on closer examination it looks like the 3 screws that hold the switch on the back had simply shaken loose. Lock still refuses to come out but I'll be back at it later today.

Here's a picture of the switch. It appears to be undamaged.
 

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#26 ·
Wow, what an ordeal!

You have the later style switch to me, but still worth checking to see if the inner plastic piece is loose and will move around. If so, replace it. Really, to me, the later one is cheap enough I'd replace it anyway. If you replace the steering lock assembly (will be the later 560 style most likely what with the key cylinder availability issues) then it will come with a new switch on the back of it. Oh, and the later 560 key cylinder only comes with one key. At least that is how it just came with mine. The key number is on the zip tie tag that is looped on the key. I got all in and installed and just ordered another key to the tag number.

Anyway, hope things are going better for you.
 
#27 ·
Success!

I finally got the lock out today (20 minutes ago). Once I got past the armor plate they stuck in front of the tumbler, the drilling out of what was left of the tumbler went almost easy. The drill set I bought from Harbor Freight worked great. I kept drilling with larger and larger bits all the way up to 7/8ths. I felt the locking pin let go (well, more like the drill jammed and spun out of my hand) and immediately the outer ring started to turn.

A word of caution... even after the ring and tumbler were out I still couldn't get the lock out. I had to force the steering column down (I had already taken out the two bolts holding the column to the cross member). A sleight twist down of the lock assembly was required for the front of the lock to clear the dashboard. Once I did that the lock slid out of the column.

Now all I have to do is buy new everything from the hood ornament back. :smile
 

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#28 ·
Great!

Might I suggest OE Discount to get the assembly. Tracy will take care of you efficiently and at a good price for gen OE MB parts.

https://www.oediscountparts.com

I've not looked up your particular number, but if it comes up 1164621030 for the steering lock, don't bother ordering it. Unless you have a pristine OE lock cylinder to fit it. New Mb cylinders for it are NLA. You have to go up to the 560 set. Tracy should know all about this as just went through it with me not long ago.

Say "Hi" from Virg if you email
 
#29 ·
Now what?

I could use some guidance from the experts on my next step.

Now that I've managed to get the ignition lock out, I have easy access to the actual ignition switch. The switch itself appears to be undamaged and I can turn it using a screwdriver.
The instrument panel is out, so I can easily plug the ignition switch connector into the back of the ignition switch and reach in and turn the switch with a screwdriver... the question isn't can I... it's more "should I"?

Aside from the fact that the instrument panel connectors are all hanging in mid-air, I'm a bit worried about cranking an engine over that hasn't run... has even been turned over... in more than 15 years. On the other hand... why spend a few hundred dollars on a new ignition switch if I have an engine that won't run?

I removed all the plugs and shot oil into each cylinder... I also changed the oil and filter. The double chain conversion was done maybe 20K or 30K miles ago but I have no idea what kind of shape the upper chain guides are in.

What should I do? Crank it over plugs out until I get some oil moving to the top of the engine? Or pull the cam covers and check the oilers and chain guides before cranking the engine.

What to do? :confused:

bTw... here's a picture of my sl.
 

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#32 · (Edited)
Excellent suggestions...

While I was waiting I went ahead and removed the cam covers. The oiler tube on the drivers side lifted right out, no resistance at all. The oiler tube on the passenger side is on pretty good. I'll replace all the little plastic parts before attempting to start the engine.

Here are some photo's of the chain (which looks perfect) and the upper chain guide. Also a photo of the drivers side cam. There is a thin covering of rust on many places on the cam but it rubs right off with a paper towel. The cam and rockers etc. are all pretty dry but I'd expect that after 15 years of just sitting there with no oil circulating. I'm going to oil the crap out of the top before I attempt to crank the engine (plugs out).

First picture is passenger side chain, second is drivers side chain, third is drivers side cam.
 

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#33 ·
Splits in rubber tubes

There are two black rubber tubes that connect to the 4 injectors on either side. Both tubes have splits on the end and I was wondering if they should be replaced. If so, what are they called and where do I get them?

Photo's showing splits.
 

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