So I have all the injectors out. I put them in my jewellery ultrasonic cleaner. I really don't know what I'm doing.
Do I take the pintles off to clean them? also I'm not sure the injectors are the right ones for a 350 engine. The green colour 0 280150036
Not much dirt came out in the ultrasonic cleaner.
Do you think I should take them to a professional to clean them and flow test? Costs $30each in NZ
Have done a test with 9volt battery to see if they all click and sprayed some carb cleaner through at the same time. I have the replacement seals.
On the sidebar, it says you have a 450slc. 4.5L M117 engine not an M116 350. Those would be the correct injectors for the 4.5L (3.5 uses yellow injectors) You can't remove the pintles (those are the pins that stick out the bottom) You can remove the small screens on the inlets. Just screw in a small wood screw or similar and then pull hard. Then put them in your ultrasonic washer. With the screens out, you may be able to reverse flow through injectors while pulsing.
After reassembling, if you can arrange a 30psig feed you can check the flows (I used a garden sprayer (see Comprehensive guide in EGV107) I have done them one by one as well as 4 at a time using one of the rails. Just pulse the injector about 10sec at a time and measure how much flows through. Or do 4 at a time and just make sure they all flow approx equally.
There may not much wrong with your injectors but you never know!
Do you have pintle caps as well as new seals and hoses? They are needed for a proper seal (which is important)
PS: I am multitasking - at present checking BW while watching the NZ-SA match in Wellington!
Thanks again MB Graham. I just have the seals. I meant to say pintle caps not pintles. I don't have the caps. So do I have the wrong Injectors? My slc is badged as a 450 but is registered in NZ as 350. I think its best for me to send them away and get them checked properly. It's all a bit fiddly for me.
The only way to really know, would be to check the engine number. It is hard to see, but is stamped on back of engine block near firewall. I think Rowdie posted a picture here somewhere of location. 350 would start with 116982 and 450 with 117982.
How about the car's VIN - does it start with 107023 (350slc) or 107024 (450slc)?
Yes I tried to find it last time we talked and couldn't find it.
Plate: LW6323
Engine No: 11698222013412
Chassis: 10702322007917
Vehicle Type: Passenger Car/Van
Seats: 5
CC rating: 3,500cc
Fuel Type: Petrol
Assembly Type: Unknown
Country of Origin: Not known
Yes, they are wrong. They should be the yellow Bosch injectors. They have lower capacity than the blue ones. So right now, your car would be running rich.
I have heard of using the yellow injectors on a M117 engine and adjusting MPS to get proper mixture. Whether you could lean out mixture enough and stay with blue injectors is another thing. I wouldn't waste money having them cleaned. Perhaps sell them and try and find a set of the yellow injectors (or equivalent). Or obtain an exhaust analyzer and try setting the mixture with the oversize injectors. The yellow injectors don't seem to be that easy to find in NA, but perhaps they are out there. I think part number may be 0280 150 024 or 280 155 203, but uou should double check those numbers in shop manual or on epc.
According to EPC, the part number for the injector nozzle is A0000783123. The corresponding Bosch part number should be 0280150022. But as MBGraham suggests, you should double check to make sure.
This is good news and bad news.
Is this why I've had my car for 8 months and never had it running right?????cost is getting up now.
I'd love to get my slc up and running so I can enjoy it. I'm not giving up yet.
With your help here can anyone supply me with some good secondhand refurbished yellow injectors please? should I put a wanted ad up on this forum? anyone got a ref for me.
slc350 1973.
Not much chance of getting them in New Zealand. Perhaps someone on the forum can help source them. Thanks in advance.
Have just found the correct engine number on the engine and it starts with 117 892 22 022800 so I don't have to get new injectors. Ya hoo. It seems the car details from when it came in which are recorded Engine No: 11698222013412 were wrong.
Where did you find that number? Is it really 117892 ? or 117982 ?
Coule of other things:
The on-line manual engine section covers both 116 and 117 engines, even if the MBUSA site doesn't say that.
If you have the car's VIN, it is possible to get a data card from mercedes benz classic center in USA or GErmany. It will provide the original engine number and other data.
A while back, you said that the car's Chassis number (same as VIN) was 10702322007917. If you found that 117982 engine number on the block where Rowdie indicated, then that would probably mean that the engine had been changed at some point because a 107023 chassis would normally have a 116982 engine.
Rowdie - can you confirm? (I am away from home base and going from memory)
Yes that's right it was hard to read the 4th digit. You are right it is actually 117 982
The chasis number checks out correct but the vin number recorded when it came into nz is very different. It might be a clerical error.
Graham. I can confirm it is a 4.5L engine. The sequence fits the format. If the VIN is stamped on the radiator cross support 107 023 it is a 350SLC with an engine change. If it is not stamped it could be the plate on the cross support has been changed. Those are the only two places the VIN appears from the factory on non North American models as far as I know. That is if there are no build sheets inside.
I don't know if other markets had the left A-pillar VIN tag that North American 107s (and other MB models) had in 1973; but check there too - left edge of windshield about 1/3 of the way up.
Well, IF Kiwigirl read the engine number right off the engine, then no doubt it is a 4.5L engine. But if the chassis is a 350slc, then I would wonder if the ECU and MPS were changed at the same time as the engine. An ECU designed for the M116 engine would not likely work too well on an M117. Not sure about the MPS, but I think I read that they are matched to ECU.
It might be useful to read the part numbers off the ECU and MPS.
EPC says your ECU is for an M116 engine; Bosch Technical Archives say your ECU and MPS are for an M116 engine. Did we confirm for sure that your engine is an M117? I know you said the injectors you sent out were blue (M117 color code). If this car had its engine replaced, it is possible that ECU and MPS remained. If you have an M117 with ECU and MPS for M116, it would explain a lot in terms of your symptoms.
Having the injectors cleaned is good as long as they match the engine. If you do in fact have a replacement M117 in your car, we should get you the correct MPS and ECU. I can help; PM me.
Hi Brad yes you are correct. My slc350 has had an engine swap but the ecu and mps haven't been changed for the current engine.
I want to get this car cruising. I've spent so much time on it and with no results.
Even a specialist mechanic sent it back going rough.
I'm starting to feel quite depressed about this car. Costing me a fortune and no satisfaction but I feel I can't give up. Pm'd you.
Kiwigirl - You have confirmed what I was concerned about. You really need to install an ECU & MPS that match the engine. And Brad, Kiwigirl did read engine number off the block and it is an M117. But which one?
I still see a problem. There are Euro and USA M117 engines. Different HP and different ECU/MPS. What other differences? We need the brains trust to address this! How do we find out which type of engine Kiwigirl has? May have to contact MB Classic Center in Germany?
Engine number is 117 982 22 022800. All we learn here, is that it is a 982 engine, RHD (2), Auto transmission (2) serial # 022800.
I'm pretty sure my car and the new engine will be euro. 117 982 22 022800 10702322007917
When the car came into NZ this was on the records
Engine No: 11698222013412
Chassis: 10702322007917
Kiwigirl, The current M117 engine number does not tell us if it is out of a Euro or a USA car. You don't want to go getting another ECU and MPS only to find that they are for a different engine. Mercedes have an engine database somewhere that would provide that information. The USA and Euro 4.5L engines are not easy to tell apart. The main difference, is the compression ratio. It is 8.8:1 for the Euro and 8:1 for the USA. A compression test might tell which one is which. Regardless, you do need to know which one you have because they use different ECU and MPS.
I just did some EPC work using information we recently discussed in another thread about Euro vs North American markets. I have attached some pdfs with markups for the relevant issue of determining correct ECU and MPS for a Euro market or North American market M117. Bosch reference lists refer to this motor as 230 PS, not M117E where E stands for export (to North America presumably).
Ultimately, the ECU and MPS for a Euro M1117 are MB part numbers:
A 000 545 27 32
A 002 542 32 17
The MPS part number shows up in two places in the EPC; one of them is next to a picture of an M110 engine and therefore very misleading. The other is next to an M117 engine. Both pictures are attached.
I am still working on finding Bosch Order numbers that correspond to these parts. I think an email to Tom Hanson at the Classic Center in Irvine would help. I also think a Vehicle Master Inquiry (VMI) from any MB dealership could produce the VIN your engine was installed in at the factory. This would reveal the market and parts choices appropriate for your engine.
Brad, those are the same numbers that I posted earlier for the Euro 4.5L M117 along with the Bosch numbers. But we don't yet know if that is what Kiwigirl has.
The problem we have here, is that we do not know whether it is a Euro, USA or other 4.5L. The 22 in the engine number indicates it was for a RHD car. The Euro 4.5L M117 engine had pistons that provided 8.8:1 compression ratio. Other than different ECU and MPS, there are no other differences. Volker (Dr D-Jet) wrote a useful summary here: https://oldtimer.tips/en/technical-articles/80-motor/83-450engines
Did RHD cars ever get 8.8:1 M117 engine?
To find out just which engine this is, a compression test may help, (but not conclusive if engine is worn). Otherwise, contact with US or German Classic center would be only way. Kiwigirl - I will send an email to US Classic Center and see if they know which engine you have.
Seeing Kiwigirl is running out of money to spend on the car and type of engine is currently unknown, are there other options?
- leave M116 ECU/MPS in place and try and adjust mixture using MPS so that car does not run rich as it does now (It has the blue 036 injectors)
- leave M116 ECU/MPS in place, install lower capacity yellow injectors (if they can be found used or equivalent) and adjust mixture using MPS so that car does not run rich as it does now (It currently has the blue 036 injectors)
- install USA MPS and ECU and see how it runs (lean if Euro engine?) adjust mixture using MPS.
In all cases, an exhaust analyzer or Air-Fuel ratio meter is essential.
Hey guys and Kiwigirl,my parrts car is a 73 or 74 450 euro so hopefully if we can match up the numbers I'll be able to help. It's still dark here so later on I'll get the numbers for the mps and ecu and post them here.
Hey guys and Kiwigirl,my parrts car is a 73 or 74 450 euro so hopefully if we can match up the numbers I'll be able to help. It's still dark here so later on I'll get the numbers for the mps and ecu and post them here.
Seems Kiwigirl more than likely has a Euro 8.8:1 compression engine. Volker (Dr.Djet) tells me that all Right Hand Drive car engines (22 in engine number) should have the Euro engine. Still waiting for response from Classic Center. (ADDED:Tom Hanson said he can't tell from engine number!)
In discussion with Volker, it seems one other check/concern would be the distributor. Hopefully the original 4.5L M117 distributor was left in the engine and hooked up to throttle body correctly. Not sure how the advance/retard worked on those Euro engines. Maybe you know John? Distributor part number from John's parts car and from Kiwigirl's car would be interesting to compare. (Kiwigirl - it is usually hard to see without removing the distributor)
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