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Getrag Manual Transmission 717.4 Problems

27K views 57 replies 16 participants last post by  nobby 
#1 ·
After 9.5 years and 50,000 plus miles.....I am starting to need to do some stuff over again.


I heard a nasty rattle at idle today...who knows how long that's been going on.

Rattle goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed.

Looks like I am pulling the trani again for another release and pilot bearing.

I guess I'll do that when I pull the propshaft for the u joint replacement.

I wonder how long that release bearing will last in that state???
 
#5 ·
Hey Nobby,

Don't jump into it too quick.... You've had the box out before and while doing it again so soon sounds like something isn't quite right inside... hope it's not bearings in the box.... but do a little more stethescope work first.

There are a few things one needs to examine closely when checking out the manual trans. Problem is, that if you do 'find' something marginal, it means time and parts.

There are some things that can be ordered before you take the box out, as part of 'normal' replacement / maintenance procedures..

spigot bearing is *always* a case of replace every time the box is out. It's cheap. Plenty of compatible hi-temp c3 clearance bearings meet the criteria, however I have a preference for the OE *** / SKF units Recently I couldn't get either, but did obtain half a dozen NTN 6202LLHC3/L412 bearings for my 16v - cost about 6 bucks ea. Made in Taiwan and high quality.

Always check the thickness of the clutch plate. Ideally, you replace it regardless of the condition, but if it has a ton of meat left on it, you can 'spare' it and put a new one in. They are not too expensive to replace anyway. LuK & Sachs repsets can be obtained easily enough. Again, it is a judgement call on whether or not there is enough meat in the friction material to leave or replace.

Pressure plate diaphragm spring (fingers) check for any wear marks on the fingers where the throwout bearing contacts. if there has been any spinning or marks on the fingers, note the depth. if it is more than just surface 'polishing' you replace the pressure plate. no questions. Broken fingers cause big problems. Again, the Repsets can be had as a full kit, both bearings, clutch and pressure plate - but obviously full kit prices can be pricey, and if there is no need for anything other than the bearings, obviously you don't waste money.

throwout bearing you replace as a matter of normal maintenance procedure and you never reinstall the old one, as that will guarantee you are doing the same job again in very short order. New Sachs units are made from a special plastic, and I believe LuK units are now a pressed steel setup.
The 'proper' unit is now NOS / NLA and is sachs 05.3151.133.331, a much heavier duty unit. (000 250 68 15)
Auto part Hardware accessory


Pivot ball and clutch fork:
Typically, these last a loooong time. However, the pivot ball is known to fail in other 717 gearboxes. it breaks at the thread base of the pivot ball, and is extremely hard to detect.

The problem with replacing *just* the pivot ball, is that it forms a wear pattern in the clutch fork. you can easily see this as a shiny relief on the fork between the spring retainer and on the surface of the pivot ball.
Auto part Metal
Auto part

To make matters 'worse' the slave cylinder will almost certainly have a degree of wear on the end of the shaft. Good news here: you can simply replace the shaft, if you have access to a lathe and an old brake booster or some high tensile bolts laying around. The added bonus here is that you can choose to slightly extend the slave rod, by a mm or 2, if you have encountered issues with the throwout bearing 'releasing' the clutch.

The very last thing to check is the throwout bearing sleeve - if there are noticeable wear marks, it really should be replaced. The theory here is that any excessive sideplay between the clutch fork, throwout bearing and the guide sleeve, will have a direct effect on the input shaft when the clutch is released.

And of course, there are the really nasty things you *don't* want to have to do, like the input shaft bearing - if the box is noisy. In fact, if the box IS noisy, then the most wise decision is to obtain a second box, rebuild it on the bench and then do the box swap. Yes, it is an expensive undertaking and requires a number of special tools. (purchasing them is worth it, even for overhauling one gearbox, believe me) And of course that means the whole thing is 'beyond regular maintenance' and more like a major service overhaul.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that you need to walk this path, it's just that sometimes, no matter how good your planning is, these things come to bite you in the arse, and there is no other way to describe the 'unpleasant' reaction upon discovering something's 'not quite right'....


insofar as the tailshaft parts are concerned....
the uni is staked in, and as such, cannot be 'replaced' (which you probably already know). What the engineering shop does, is replace the uni yoke with a new one. They machine the spline off and the yoke off, order a new yoke and uni, weld them back together, then machine and re-balance the assembly.

Part of this deal means you need to do a few things first, before you take it to the engineering shop to be machined & balanced.
1. replace the centre bearing, rubber boot, washers and bearing hanger.
this means separating the propshaft. make a note before you separate it with a paint pen marker on the shafts, so that when it's reassembled, they are put back in phase.... or else it's a big problem. clean the shaft with prepsol before you do any work on it, mark it up and then separate the shafts. clean the splines remove the bearing and washers, regrease with new moly grease, install the new bearing and hanger, washers and boot, regrease the spline and refit the shafts. *partially* tighten the nut - enough to keep the shafts from separating again but do not fully tighten it.

Take it to the machine shop for new uni and balancing.

I also suggest, if you intend to undertake that project, that you remove the flywheel and pressure plate, and send them off with the propshaft, for lightening and balancing as well.

If you do this, buy a new rear main seal and replace it. it's cheap insurance against oil leaks.

Back to the flywheel / pressure plate
Taking even a small amount off the flywheel will ensure the throttle is more responsive. There is no need to take copious amounts off, it is very easy to take ½-¾ lb off and have a much more responsive throttle.

I took 2lbs off my 16v flywheel and the change in throttle response is out-of-sight compared to the previous. It will freely spin to the redline in about ⅔ the time it used to, and there is no adverse effect from lightening this much. I wouldn't however take much more off, as you do need to have some mass in the flywheel to ensure the engine maintains a smooth idle. Take too much off, and you will need to raise the idle to keep the momentum in the reciprocating/rotating assembly. Also, if you take too much out, you will feel the combustion pulses.

Anyway, just have a sit back and think about it first, If you do decide to balance or machine the flywheel, you need the pressure plate assembly to be sent off with the flywheel for balancing.

You may be aware I only recently did this, and the total cost in parts for me was about $500. but I did buy 2 new masters and slaves, new fabricated braided flex line from the slave to the hardline, new reservior to clutch master wet line, new tailshaft couplings, new centre bearing hanger plus the tailshaft service kit, new throwout & spigot bearings, new clutch fork and ball pivot(2 pivots - I always keep a spare) and I already had a new spec stage 2+ clutch & pressure plate (which is about $600)

The flywheel & pressure plate balancing cost $107 (for a 201) remachining the propshaft replacing the uni with a new uprated replaceable performance part along with balancing of that was $550.
 
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#6 ·
Hey Nobby,

Don't jump into it too quick.... You've had the box out before and while doing it again so soon sounds like something isn't quite right inside... hope it's not bearings in the box.... but do a little more stethescope work first.

Blah blah blah....

The flywheel & pressure plate balancing cost $107 (for a 201) remachining the propshaft replacing the uni with a new uprated replaceable performance part along with balancing of that was $550.
^^ sticky ^^ EGv107 ^^ :surrender:
:thumbsup::bowdown::thumbsup:
 
#7 ·
Thanks Joe. Great post.

I'm guessing the "spigot" bearing is what I referred to as the "pilot" bearing?

In any case.....the release bearing will be in tomorrow (Fri) and the pilot bearing next Wed.

Question remains.....can The PIG go 3000 miles on a shitty release bearing?

I will have NO time between now and next Thursady as well as only half the parts.

And I am not going to replace it on the fly.


Should I risk the drive or not...is really the question.
 
#9 · (Edited)
You'll know if the throwout bearing or the pilot (spigot) bearing is failing....

1. disengaging the clutch and shifting will be next to impossible - that means the throwout bearing has collapsed. - associated with this will be a really LOUD grumbling noise all the time. you cannot mistake it for say - a crook input shaft or mainshaft bearing whine / rumble at idle. Occasionally you may also get a metallic 'chirp' such as bearings do when they run dry and the ball bearing skids over the groove in the outer race, creating flatspots.

2. spigot (pilot) bearing. if this fails, your input shaft will basically 'flap about in the breeze' and if it seizes (they usually dont) then the input shaft will vibrate harshly on takeup of the clutch and on release. it is unmistakeable. Also, the clutch will not last very long if this occurs, as the metal from the bearing will populate the clutch & pressureplate recess, creating an imbalance and also terrible noises. Similar to how a dual-mass flywheel fails.. loads of nasty vibrations and bad clutch takeup - even slipping in some cases. If the bearing fails and doesn't lose it's bits into the flywheel, you're one lucky SOB. count your prayers. BTW, you will hear the noise from this problem ALL the time.

3. input shaft bearing failure. the most typical noise heard in a transmission. in neutral you hear the faint rumble... gradually gets louder....
put the clutch in and the noise slows down and then you have relative silence.
This is not as bad as it sounds... you have time on your side.
But it is not always 'just' the input shaft bearings. There are a couple of needle rollers on certain gears which wear and can cause gear problems, but that is noticeable in shifting. Also the rear main bearing (output shaft) is a good candidate for failure. Nonetheless, bearing replacement on most of these is not a huge task. It is different for the later 717.4 and 716.6 boxes which have integral bellhousings.

Before you decide to pull anything...

Immediately drop the gearbox fluid and refill with good brand ATF. MB have a spec on it, but basically a good dex2/3 fluid is OK. if it meets specs. Read on first though, there are some caveats.

specs are here: https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_231_1.pdf

The numbered index is here: https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/bevo-sheets-sort1.html
for example, the "anomalies" are the G-wagen manual boxes and the dogleg getrag 717.4 boxes, which require a more specific criteria, 236.6

Most all of the other manual boxes fall in to category 235.1 and 236.2
Basically they urge you to use genuine MB gearbox fluid. But you can use a compatible ATF. Most Dex3 ATF's meet the MB criteria.

Drop the oil. ATF is not expensive. buy a bigger bottle of the stuff, you'll probably need to change it 2-3 times in the next month to accurately diagnose an internal issue.

If you have anything more than fine metal paste on the gearbox drain plug, stick a small magnet into the hole and try to pull out anything bigger. If it looks shiny and jagged, it's probably a bit of hardened gear tooth. not a big deal. but if it is circular and shiny or looks like part of say, a broken circlip or somesuch, then a pulldown and rebuild is on the cars in the not-too-distant future.

If the fluid looks OK, clean the magnetic plug, replace it and refill with 1.6L of ATF or up to the filler hole (make sure the cars on level ground). I use a little gear oil pump bottle to get it in, as that filler plug is a bit of a headache to remove and replace.

Drive the car for 20-30 mins, get the trans hot- and immediately drop the oil again.
check the magnet. If it's got a lot less paste on it this time, you're in luck.
refill the trans and then drive it to the GTG.

If there is a whine present in 1st-3rd, then generally, new ATF will alleviate a fair bit of that noise. Whine is a byproduct of gear lash, changes in gear lash are typically due to worn shims and bearings. It does not mean the box is about to explode. They can last a very long time in this condition.

If you get an increasingly bad rumble, like using a mortar & pestle or twisting your shoe on a hard gravel road, then you have a bearing issue which needs attention sooner than later... bearing metal in the magnetic plug is the indicator here... shiny metal and loads of paste, with the odd piece of hard chrome which has gone blueish or yellowed. If you see a huge amount of that, it's time to pull the box and go inside for a good look.

good news.... apart from some of the bearing pullers which are not available anymore, most all of the work can be done at home in a suitable vice and with a hydraulic bearing press. If you're not confident, take it to a gearbox shop..... BUT
order genuine bearings (yes, not aftermarket brands) and new synchros & seals before you head down this road.

It's not as scary as it all sounds.

But, back to the root cause.... the input shaft bearing fails for a couple of reasons...
1. bad clutch launches (sidestepping the clutch too many times)
2. pilot bearing failing
3. excessive vibration / movement in the engine's crank (i.e. too much freeplay or end float and excessive main bearing clearances - but you'd know about those )
4. excessive pressure plate clamping force and improperly lubricated splines.

a few other reasons exist but too complicated to explain.
 
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#10 ·
Lots of info, Joe.

It has a nasty metallic rattle at idle in neutral with the parking brake engaged.

Press in the clutch pedal and noise disappears.

Does that sound like a release bearing?
 
#11 · (Edited)
No that's more like an input shaft bearing 'rumble'

does the noise stop abruptly, or does it 'slow down' until the input shaft stops rotating while you have the clutch still fully depressed?

if the noise stops abruptly, as soon as you put a small amount of pressure on the clutch (not fully disengage) then it's the throwout bearing.

If the noise exists until the clutch is fully depressed, and then once the clutch disengages from the flywheel, the rumble slows to silence, then you have a bearing issue in the box.

drop your oil and check the magnet on the drain plug.

If it's the throwout bearing, take the spares with you, plus the usual sockets & spanners to drop the box. Replace the bearing while you're at the GTG - I'm sure the guys will help you get it in and out in no time flat.

Check your clutch slave rod for excessive wear on the fork end - if it's galled or mushroomed, fabricate a replacement. should take 5 mins max in a lathe.

If your slave is the same part number as mine, then the shaft length overall is approx 93mm when new
Auto part Metal Brass

Slave Cyl part number

Calipers Measuring instrument Technology Electronic device Electronics

New slave actuating rod

Calipers Measuring instrument Tool Gauge

Old Slave actuating rod, note tip wear (RH end)
 
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#12 ·
No that's more like an input shaft bearing 'rumble'

does the noise stop abruptly, or does it 'slow down' until the input shaft stops rotating while you have the clutch still fully depressed?

drop your oil and check the magnet on the drain plug.
Abruptly.

rattle clang...depress clutch = gone.

Oil has about 5000 miles on it. Dex III. clean plug the last time. And the time before.
 
#13 ·
OK abrupt is leaning more to throwout bearing.

If you got the sachs 'plastic' version, you can pull the clip retainer off carefully, and expose the bearing. With some careful attention you can pack some more hi temp wheel bearing grease into the shell, before installing it into the box.

But along with that, you need to check the slave rod. If it has wear like in the above pic, before you reinstall the gearbox, fab up a new rod. If the part number is the same as the slave above, a rod with 93-95mm length will work fine. Diameter is not critical. between 7-9mm is fine, 8mm ideal and stainless steel. As long as the ends have the correct ball seat it will work fine.
Or you can buy a replacement FTE slave for about ⅓ the price of genuine ..
 
#14 ·
Slave is about 7 years old and 40,000 miles. The old one was mushroomed at the end!


I am going to ignore this until after the GTG.

I was planning on pulling the prop-shaft for a u joint replacement and balancing this years....so while i'm in there I'll drop the trani for a look see.

I should start shopping for a spare trani. This is something I would like to attempt myself.

Unfortunately.... there is not a plethora of maintenance manuals for this....unless you know different, Joe?


Believe it or not....Haynes has a complete breakdown of the 5 speed trani in one of their MB sedan manuals.
 
#15 ·
I'm not sure which *exact* GL/75 box you may or may not have... but I do have pics of a breakdown, and can pull the repair guide from WIS for you.
 
#17 ·
Hope it finds you OK.
While you're searching for bits & pieces for the insides, make sure you have the part numbers for the shims, the synchros and the bearings.
Each gearbox has different shims - so those are ordered after you pull the box down and check the clearances before disassembly.
The synchros are different in certain 717.4 boxes. make sure you order the 'correct' ones. generally 1st/reverse are the same but the rest are different (model specific)
seals are the same, Viton rear and fronts, Order a full set of ball bearings (you replace all of those) and needle rollers on the gears only if there is noticeable wear (added expense)
the front seal and shim on the input shaft must be driven home exactly as per specification or the box will leak like a sieve. It is important to get that front shim exact. the guide sleeve - replace it. clutch fork and pivot ball are cheap and long lasting. Plenty of hi temp grease on the ball and the slave rod.

Let me know how you go with the printout. If you need an exploded diagram let me know.
cheers.
 
#19 ·
I'm guessing that the 1983 5-speed 280sl bits in my garage are sounding appealing for Nobby's rebuild and taking a look at all this stuff in my garage on the way back from the GTG will be worth Nobby's while. I don't know what any of that stuff above means, but if I'm ever going to make my holy grail car(s), I guess I better learn it.




Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 
#22 · (Edited)
I can't figure out how to get the audio to play, but it is worthy of noting that the (3.5 m116) v8 4-speed manual transmission is not a 717.4xx transmission. I can't remember what number it is, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

EDIT:
I believe the 350sl manual transmission is a 716.100 G76/27A
Here's is a screenshot from the EPC:
 

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#23 ·
I can't figure out how to get the audio to play
It's a .mov file from an iPhone so it should just play on any Apple device. I will convert to another format and repost. FWIW @txpaddler's mechanic took a listen and immediately said throw out bearing. Another friend said that I would have heard the warning signs, but since I had only driven the car < 60 miles, I had no baseline to compare food from getting bad. I do know that the moment it went was dramatic.

worthy of noting that the (3.5 m116) v8 4-speed manual transmission is not a 717.4xx transmission.
Thanks for the tips. I've asked @txpaddler for the tranny info which he just sent and will post pertinent info once I get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#25 ·
I never did do a follow up on this thread.

Bad bad Nobby.

Turns out that whilst The PIG was suffering from idle HELL at the time....the rattling I was hearing was due to LOW RPMs.

The RPMs at idle were too low and were causing all the trani racket.

AND...believe it or not....it is in the troubleshooting portion of the MB manual.

Problem solved by FINALLY solving my idle problems.
 
#32 ·
Didn't I send that to you in the original file? It's in the service bulletin updates. ;)
 
#27 ·
BTW If it helps, the transmission is from a 1980 350 SL. I have yet to to subscribe to the EPC. I have downloaded the R107.zip that has some manuals for the US spec R107 380-560SL. I guess what I need is the technical manual for the 1980 350SL. Where would I find that?

As a side note, I was looking at your flex disk post and as long as I'm under there I would likely replace those. They need to be replaced. Does the 560SL contain the job numbers that you reference in your post @nobby?
 
#29 ·
As a side note, I was looking at your flex disk post and as long as I'm under there I would likely replace those. They need to be replaced. Does the 560SL contain the job numbers that you reference in your post @nobby?
Probably. It's a 107.
 
#30 ·
@nobby I'm looking for the right manual, or set of manuals in my case, to help give me the knowledge to do the work I need.

1986 500SL with a 1980 350SL manual transmission 716.100 (G 76/27 A)

I need to change the clutch release bearing.

These are the materials I think I need:
1. R107 manual that covers up to the 560SL (automatic transmission)
2. R107 manual that covers 280/350SL (manual tranmission)
3. EPC to get part numbers

This Haynes manual appears to only cover auto transmissions according to the table of contents.

https://haynes.com/en-us/mercedes-b...slslc-coupe-roadster-450-sesel-v8-sedan-71-80

Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
#31 ·
i have experience like this in my W202 c230, after almost 250 km journey...my clutch pedal stuck...and the problem is in bearing no 20 like the attachment....suggest better change before another problem come, actualy after that i have change the Clutchs set, bearing and the hydrolic slave .....
 
#37 ·
1. raise vehicle on hoist
2. remove exhaust downpipes
3, unbolt tailshaft coupling, centre bearing mount.
4. unbolt slave cyl from bellhousing.
5. place transmission jack under gearbox
6. undo transmission crossmember to chassis bolts.
7. check to see if sufficient clearance is available for bellhousing to clear trans tunnel, by lowering transmission jack slowly, until the maximum rotation is achieved. If insufficient, then the engine mount bolts must be loosened to allow the engine to tilt sufficiently, without damaging the radiator (care must be taken)
8. raise trans jack to original position, remove lower bellhousing bolts to engine except for ONE. Leave that bolt partially threaded into the engine block.. it's there as a safety.
9. lower trans jack, to access upper bellhousing bolts, remove all of them, then slowly articulate transmission towards the rear of the vehicle (rotate, use gentle force with prybar to separate bellhousing from block, take care to not damage mating surfaces) when the transmission is retained by the last remaining bolt, remove that bolt and articulate the transmission until it clears the tunnel, and can be safely lowered on the transmission jack.

10. perform your inspection / repairs.

11. clutch alignment tool will be required to ensure problem-free reinstallation.

12. You should already have a replacement pilot bearing, clutch disk and quite possibly a new pressure plate and throwout bearing, a new clutch fork AND pivot, a new slave cyl.

13. clean everything. then clean it again, with acetone / non-chlorinated brake cleaner / your favourite residue-free degreasing liquid. Wipe everything down with a clean lint-free rag.

14. lubricate input shaft spline, sliding collar, pivot ball and fork, recess for slave rod. throwout bearing (unless it is maintenance free one)

15. replace pilot bearing, clutch disk, pressure plate as necessary. use alignment tool while torquing pressure plate bolts, to ensure correct concentricity of clutch.

16. installation is the reverse of removal.

17. replacing slave cyl requires some knowledge of reverse bleeding procedure, and clean brake fluid (so bleed your RHF calliper properly before you bleed the clutch) otherwise it will not be long before it requires replacement.

18. It's easier to pay a good specialist MB workshop for the labour, and supply with parts, than it is to undertake the work yourself. If you don't have a hoist, or access to one, and a transmission jack, then I strongly suggest you do this, speaking from experience. Jiggling a transmission into place underneath a car in limited space without a hoist or a proper tilt-axis transmission jack makes a 30 minute job a 3 hour job, and you'll slice your fingers open even if you have gloves.

The last time I did a gearbox swap, I was 2 weeks out of rehab hospital, still recovering from a serious bike accident and still had two broken legs, fractures in my cervical spine and a completely blown out LH rotator cuff. I do not recommend you perform this work by yourself, or without a hoist or access to RX schedule 8 pain relief. I cannot make it much more clearer than that. These days, completely healed and mobile, I look back on that and wonder how I did it, because I can hardly lift a gearbox now, let alone heave one up on top of me and wiggle it into place on my back from underneath a car on jack stands. Anyone who does this is fucking crazy.

and that was for a lightweight 717.404 you have an iron case 4 speed. You will come to understand what these things weigh if you decide to be crazy, and when it decides to fall on your chest and crush your ribs.

best of luck - get on the epc first, order your parts and make sure you have a spare rear main seal and new flywheel bolts as well - because it's the right time to do preventative maintenance when the gearbox is off.
 
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#39 ·
I do not recommend you perform this work by yourself, or without a hoist or access to RX schedule 8 pain relief. I cannot make it much more clearer than that.

Anyone who does this is fucking crazy.

best of luck - get on the epc first, order your parts and make sure you have a spare rear main seal and new flywheel bolts as well - because it's the right time to do preventative maintenance when the gearbox is off.
Appreciate all the advice here. Really do. Knowledge is power.

Thanks and I'll keep you all posted.
 
#40 ·
Shit. I've been busy and missed all the commotion.

My Mercedes parts dealer was my friend when I did my trani years ago.

I did the removal and install in my garage with The PIG 19" off the garage floor measuring from the rocker panel.

I was doing many other things at the time, this was just another job. I was in no rush......

I used a regular floor jack with a homemade trani jig bolted to it.

Was it easy....? Coming off...yes.

Going back on was a bit of a bear. Lining up the pilot bearing had me cursing. But I did it. By myself....and as Joe said....it took me 3 hours...LOL.
 
#41 ·
Should add, at least in reference to the .000, I made a list of part #'s from the EPC and at least half were NLA.
This is my solution to the problem, adopting a T-5 to the merc bellhousing. Mustang case with Camaro tailstock
to get the 23" needed to center the shifter in it's original location. A lot lighter and parts everywhere.
Just have to mill the adapter. That's a 4-spd bell but the bolt pattern is similar to the 5-spd. Lot's of companies
will rebuild it to Ford Racing spec's. Around $1K w/exch. Also available with mechanical or electric speedo
drive.
 

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#42 ·
In a Perfect world, if I was doing a manual transmission R&R, this is what I would do as the bare minimum, to ensure I did not have to go back until there was a 'good and proper failure'. i.e. broken gears..

1. new front and rear gearbox main seals, new propshaft yoke nut.
2. new engine rear main seal
3. new flywheel bolts
4. Lighten and surface grind the flywheel. In the v8, I'd take as much as I could from the outer lip on the clutch side, and if there was enough surface on the inside, I'd try to thin the inner non-contact section down, whilst retaining the inner lip (which keeps fw bolt heads, oil, broken pilot bearing material etc out of the clutch disk and PP)
5. absolutely no question, a new pressure plate and clutch disk, a new pivot fork and pivot ball bolt, new slave sylinder, new clutch pressure line (braided, fabricated)
6. obviously a new pilot and throwout bearing.

7. I'd check the starter motor for the drive gear and see also if the bendix solenoid and shear pin was serviceable, perhaps remove the starter give it a super thorough clean and regrease the gears, check the brushes and refit.

8. Exhaust. As much as it is a huge PITA in a 107 to R&R an exhaust, The thing I love about having the downpipes off is the access to the sides of the block, which means the underside bolts on the exhaust manifold. I hate rusty looking manifolds, and I've taken mine off a couple of times in the past, and each time I have regretted taking them out - BUT - felt absolutely relieved and satisfied after blasting, and coating them (2nd time it was ceramic coated and the best thing I've done - gets rid of so much engine bay heat!) New Bolts and copper washers look nice as well.

9. Engine mounts. Yeah, in a 107 theyre not the most difficult to do, but they are sure as hell a LOT easier with those downpipes out of the way. Combines with a lack of gearbox, the engine is a lot lighter and more easily positioned for mount R&R. Pity the early mounts are bolted from the top down though. The later mounts are so much easier because of the trapezoidal recess and the bolt from underneath through the mount into the arm.

10 rear transmission mount replacement. These get oil-soaked over the years, and a common problem on many autos, I haven't had any issues with the manual boxes to date. But, they do sag and wear like all rubber mounts and it's surprising how much 'tighter' they make a car feel and drive.

11. tailshaft couplings and propshaft centre bearing mount (rubber collar) : These should be part of any gearbox R&R - basic stuff and should be remembered as routine service schedule items. Yes, that is correct. they are routine replacement parts and are not meant to be stuck under there for 200,000km - even if they are still original. But, if you feel like taking risks, I can show you pics of just how quickly they can fail and cause huge $$$$ damage.

12. Proper engine bay steam clean. - especially at the firewall area. Also, if you have to replace the steering coupling, it's a good time to do it. A lot of people ignore this, and it's amazing how much steering freeplay a $100 part can fix. Check it and replace as necessary. Most cars I've seen totally ignore this and it is a safety hazard. It baffles me as to why people dont service it, because you don't need to remove half the vehicle in order to replace it - when it can be done in about 30 minutes from the topside of the engine bay. Even quicker if you slacken off the steeing column bolts under the dash.


OK that might have been a bit of a rant as well, but seriously - when you have an option available to you like this - a major subassembly removal - then the actual labour time saved by getting in and doing all the preventative things, will save you HUGE bills and hours of time later. It might seem expensive now, but boy oh boy - imagine having to do an engine rear main seal 3 weeks after you put in a new clutch.... yep, that's going to cost you a seal and another clutch disk.....

Seen it all before. Can only state the obvious, but there are people out there who just don't "get it" when it comes to maintenance tasks on a 107.

They are not cheap, never have been, never will be - if they are done correctly. If they are done correctly, they are far cheaper in the longterm, and there is never any question of reliability issues when a large subassembly R&R task is performed in accordance with the factory service schedule items.


With regards to parts - I would do the EPC lookup, then print off the shopping list, and email it to Jon at the classic centre. Allow some time for his reply. Specifically mention that you're doing a gearbox R&R. There may be updated part numbers, and additionally there may be repsets (service kits, similar to the aftermarket sachs / luk repset) which are available. Once you have prices, you can go shopping online if you want to save a buck or two, but I always like the fact that the genuine stuff comes with warranty, and I've never ever had issues with fitment or quality.

I used to be 'that guy' who'd shop on price. These days, for the measly few dollars I save on parts prices, I pay for it in shipping from multiple suppliers, and that alleged saving is not there anymore. It's so much more convenient to have the genuine part in my hands, directly from the classis centre, and I know that I will not have any issues - even if I ordered the wrong part (happened once) there is no hassle sending it back and having the correct replacement sent.

Especially with the 16v - so many parts now are just made from pure unobtanium. the 107 is like a cheap filthy whore when it comes to parts against the 16v - with one exception. Tailight lenses / assemblies. well, they haven't changed in price in the last 10 years, and over 1K is ridiculous for coloured plastic.... but the US ones are different to euro lenses, so I guess we get raped on the orange lenses....

rant over. Good luck. It'll be so much nicer once you've completed the job, and you'll fall in love with it all over again.
 
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#43 ·
5. absolutely no question, a new pressure plate and clutch disk,

Absolutely, no question....measure them first.

Mine were almost brand new and 10 years / 75,000 miles later...still going strong!

And Joe.....man...do you type a lot.:)
 
#46 ·
Just thought I'd update y'all on what ended up happening with my 500 SL... so I had taken it to a mechanic someone recommended. He took a look at the adaptation of the 350 SL transmission to the 86 500SL, and puzzled over it for a while. He listened and came the conclusion that it was the throwout bearing, but in the end was hesitant to take the time open her up and do the work as he was concerned what he'd find in there. The only job he would be willing to do was to "make it right" and install a 560SL transmission and EZL ignition distributor. Which would totally make sense to also do all the maintenance work that has been recommended in this thread. So I've been puzzling over this, figuring out what it would take to source a parts car that had everything I needed...

Fast forward to Monday when I took the car in for a second opinion. I noticed on my way to the 2nd opinion that I could no longer find 3rd gear. Well, anyway, lo and behold, apparently there was no manual transmission fluid! 1 1/2 quarts later, no more noise and driving her home, I was able to find 3rd gear. No need to take anything apart, no need to source parts to "make it right".

I was a little disappointed that the first mechanic didn't think to check something so simple as to verify the manual transmission fluid. I'm such a stupid NooB that I didn't think to check that.



Anyway, something learned, and I will be regularly checking the manual transmission fluid from now on as there is a leak that I thought was oil but now strongly suspect is manual transmission fluid. I'll jack her up in the morning and take some pictures for you all to see the leakage and the transmission fluid level.

I believe I need this gear oil which should work for both the transmission and rear differential https://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Hyp...90667&sr=8-2&keywords=75W-85+Differential+Oil

Any objections to 75w-90 synthetic products? (I'm sure I've opened a can of worms)
 
#48 ·
Your manual 4 speed transmission is a 716.100
It is originally fitted to m116 3.5L v8's from w108/9, w116 and R/C107 3.5L v8 - aka 350SL or 350SLC.

The maintenance system sheets in the factory service manual state you should use Automatic transmission fluid type a Suffix a spec 236.2

If you're not aware, Mercedes-Benz has lubricant specification website which specifically lists all fluids for use in your vehicle. Also, the owners manual for the vehicle lists the manual and automatic fluids, engine oil, differential oil (axle) for use.

Firstly, the index is : https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...ets-sort1.html

you can download it on the itunes app store:

https://itunes.apple.com/US/app/merc...220005077?mt=8


Secondly, information about gear oils:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/231.0_en.html

Thirdly: Your vehicles transmission is supposed to be filled with fluid meeting spec sheet 236.2 https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...hbegriff=236.2

The ATF must meet all the requirements of the transmissions with nonferrous metal synchronization. These include, in particular, wear protection against pitting and seizure as well as a defined friction coefficient of the synchronizer components that is as constant as possible over the entire service life. As a hydraulic fluid, the ATF is used for hydraulic power transmission and for protecting the hydraulic unit from wear.

The seal compatibility must be ensured with all elastomer materials installed. The approved ATF according to sheet 236.2 correspond to the currently no longer valid GM specification Type A Suffix A. The kinematic fresh oil viscosity at 100 °C must be at least 7.0 mm²/s, after shearing (as per CEC- TLPG 7) at least 6.0 mm²/s.


bottom line. Use the recommended fluids. Change at recommended intervals. There is no filter, so the interval frequency is increased compared to an automatic - approx 10,000Miles /12 months. Use a high quality full synthetic fluid listed on sheet 236.2
 
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