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Thinking of buying a 450SL

8K views 54 replies 18 participants last post by  MBGraham 
#1 ·
Hi guys,

I am still trying to find my "perfect" Benz. I came across a '76 SL with no maintenance history. Its got a dark grey exterior with the light grey interior. Center arm rest and front seats will need to be completely redone. 181K miles.

Its got a matching hard top and a "partially" leaky soft top. How much is a fair price for this? The buyer wants "best offer" for it.

Advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Pricing is highly dependent on mechanical and cosmetic condition, as well as rust. It also depends on where you are: a good rust-free example will bring more in Minneapolis than it will in Miami. On top of that, the 1975 is one of the least desirable 450SLs due to having the catalytic converters in the engine compartment, which tends to cause or exaggerate hot start issues.

The seats and soft top will cost you easily a kilobuck, more like $1500.

The lack of service records is a drawback as well. Budget for a replacement of the timing chain and guides, about $300 or so if you do the work, more (double, folks?) if you have someone else do it.

Get a prepurchase inspection from a reputable independent Mercedes mechanic.

If it runs and drives with no rust and no mechanical issues, I'd pay $2000 tops.
 
#3 · (Edited)
The seats and soft top will cost you easily a kilobuck, more like $1500.
The lack of service records is a drawback as well. Budget for a replacement of the timing chain and guides, about $300 or so if you do the work, more (double, folks?) if you have someone else do it.
Get a prepurchase inspection from a reputable independent Mercedes mechanic.
If it runs and drives with no rust and no mechanical issues, I'd pay $2000 tops.
I have some recent quotes that verifies Jaymaynard's statements.
  • Soft top $1300 installed; good quality canvas top $330 DYI.
  • Timing chain and guides $1700 installed; DYI $500 if you buy all Mercedes parts, the timing chain tensioner itself is $380 delivered.
  • Prepurchase inspection at MB dealership was $133.
  • Remove that CAT if not already, check for original paint and evidence of bodywork; zero rust on floorpan;
  • Search FleaBay with the phrase "Mercedes 450SL 1976" and you will see a whole bunch of parts and prices... good news is the parts are out there, bad news is so many people need them...
search this board it has been discussed before. Lots of people still compliment these cars as the styling is distinctive and memorable, so there is the emotional factor if the car is what you really want. Unfortunately before 1981 there are no carfacts or autochecks; but if you are nice to the dealer they could look up the vin and tell you the service history by MB (no clues on other work).
 
#4 ·
I will go check it out Friday. How imminent are the timing chains? Do they need to be done ASAP or can I wait for a few months? Its got 181K miles with no service history.

Also, with regards to the catalytic converter - is it only 1975 or do the 1976 also have these issues? I am not in a rush to buy the car and if either of these years are not as good as the others - I dont mind waiting.
 
#7 ·
I have no idea what the early 126 had. It has one timing chain. Dual row, not single row. Only '81-'83 North American 380SL had the single row chain. The chain is not the main issue it is the sliding rails AKA guides. They become brittle with age and break. READ THE THREAD IN THE EGV107 STICKY!
 
#8 · (Edited)
I would guess that 95% of all Mercedes SL's will have some issues.
I hope you are a DIY'er as these decades old cars can be expensive
to maintain if you pay to have someone to do everything. I will say
that they are fun to tinker with and if you are a DIY'er and not
real fussy wanting everything to be perfect that they are not that
expensive to maintain.

Carl
 
#9 ·
Good to know they are dual row - thats what I was asking. Also, yes I DIY (no engine or trans tearing apart or doing struts/springs) - everything else yes. Not a problem.

Torn between this one or a W126 or a 123 diesel.

Are the hard tops prone to leak? Don want to spend on a new soft top right now
 
#11 ·
I think you being a DIY'er makes you a very very good choice for
a Mercedes 107 SL. But when you say ask about the hard tops leaking,
if you mean that you want to leave your 107SL outside makes me want
to say this: I have not found my 107SL's to leak at all the few times I
have driven them in the Rain. Of course the rubber seals on mine are
in great condition. Even the soft top on mine does not leak when I drive
them in the rain. A proper hard top should be water tight. That said,
107SL's have been known to rust but I suspect that most instances are
those that are driven on salt infested roads or just left sitting outside
neglected for years under a tree. Personally, if you want to maintain a
pristine 107SL, I would recommend keeping it in a Garage and sparingly
driving it on wet days. You probably want to do this to keep them
nice and clean after you spend hours detailing them anyway.

Carl
 
#10 ·
So you think you want a 107???


Internet meme Photo caption Facial hair Media Beard



Or perhaps for the newly initiated:
Internet meme Photo caption Facial hair Beard Media
 
#14 ·
Not sure if it helps or not, but I just procured a '80 450 with 96k miles in nearly identical condition to what you describe here (seats, little in the way of maintenance records) save the top which is in good shape and the fuel system which is not. A/C is in what sounds like typical shape (uh, not working). At any rate, paid $1,800 and I can attest that as a partial DIYer (meaning I can do maintenance and follow instructions, but lack confidence/space/tools for bigger jobs) that it is easy to spend double of your initial investment in getting the thing road worthy.

Don't forget the cost of new tires, hoses, belts if it needs them or a myriad of other things you can nickle and dime your seller on. Now that I'm into it a bit further from the expense side, I wish I had haggled a bit harder as every $100 counts! Good luck to you, sir, and keep your eyes wide open. There's good info everywhere on this site regarding what's reasonable and what should be replaced along the way. Take the good advice and ignore the grumps!

Well mostly ignore the grumps, they typically have a point, but just need a hug :D
 
#15 ·
The rule of thumb is quite simple really.:thumbsup:

1. buy the absolute BEST example you can afford.
2. Before you buy it, make sure you get an independent Mercedes-Benz specialist mechanic to do a pre-purchase inspection - and list all the vehicles issues.

If he/she tells you it's a dud, walk away. If it costs more to get running than the purchase price, walk away.

the worst case scenario is that you chose a car that looked OK, and the mechanic brings out a list longer than your arm (it does happen) and you lost a few dollars on an inspection that saved your arse from losing thousands more.

so back to #1 - buy the absolute best example you can afford.

Now, if you have a budget that stretches to 2500, and you can do your own work on everything, then yes, that's the car for you.

But if your budget stretches to say 7500-10K then buying the 2500 car is simply going to cost you the balance of your budget in spare parts... and labour - especially if you cannot or are afraid to go inside an engine.

I really do not wish to dissuade you from pursuing your dreams, but when it comes to 107's boy oh boy do you have to be objective about purchasing.... because if you aren't - and we've all been there before.... that tired looking cheap 107 that you're eyeballing with jealous lust will absolutely kick you in the nuts and leave you penniless.....:crybaby2: much like how your wife will after she finds out how much you're spending in parts, and how many late nights you're in the garage and not in the bed.....:D
That will leave you penniless, with no roof over your head and no running car either.... so use your brains before you shell out cash on a car.

Do your research, take your time. There is no need to rush, or move on the first SL you clap your eyes on. Plenty of them to go around, and you should go and check out every single one in your area, just to get an idea of all the common problems, general condition, rust, interior wear, non-functioning electricals & vacuum stuff, general body condition, rubbers etc..

And when it comes to parts - there are some things that you just do not skimp on and plenty of opportunities to save money. The problem is, the bits you really need to buy as genuine parts, can be bloody expensive. Things like the door seals and a pillar seals etc.... all the rubber bits for body - gotta be genuine. not that üro shit on ebay.
headlamp lenses and tailights... yep $$$

But things like burl trim or zebrano - not so bad, and aftermarket supply is there.
mechanicals, and suspension - good aftermarket support is available.

So there is an opportunity to save some $, but not a huge amount, unless you really are prepared to do everything yourself. Then you will be able to keep several running reliably in good condition.... or do an m120 v12 swap or something :D

But let me be blunt and say this. If the 107 is your first Mercedes, then I would urge you to look first at something a little 'cheaper' like a 123 280CE, a 124 300e (maybe even a cabriolet) or 201 2.6 to cut your teeth on. They are all easy to work on (easier than a 107 by a mile) reliable, relatively rust free, better handling (maybe the 123 coupe isn't) and once you've done a bit of DIY and understand how the systems work, then you will have absolute confidence in being able to purchase a 107 and more importantly, have a backup car.

If you find that the car isn't for you, no great loss.

But if you're dying to have a happy 107 experience straight away, then look a little higher in the price range.

There is no such thing as a Cheap 107 Mercedes-Benz.

(and read the EG v107, because we've done this to death eleventy-billion times before)

Good luck, and get out there and look at some more 107's, so you have an idea of what you're getting yourself into. If you're heart is still in it after examining a dozen examples really thoroughly, then you might be the kind of person who has the right attitude towards owning one.

But don't spring for that tired old bucket in knee-high grass. buy the best car you can afford, and budget to spend a few K over the first 12 months to iron out all those little pesky issues.
 
#16 ·
Like they say with purchasing a house, if you want to bottom fish,
"buy one where all the right things are wrong" :)

Last year I purchased a 1986 560SL where the PO owner gave up after new paint,
new top, new interior including trunk, new tires. He purchased the car with Maintenance
History but lost it. What was left for me was "all the right things wrong" like the
trunk lock broken, hood latch broken, Radio not working, electric antenna broken,
and a lot of other "issues" that come with a car that was disassembled for paint and
then not put back together very well. PO was doing this car for his wife until she
decided she wanted an R129. All the right things wrong were the things that I
could DIY - which I enjoyed.

Carl
 
#17 ·
I don't see much difference whether buying a $2000 107 or a diesel 126/123 when it comes to potential cost to restore. (BTW, I have lived with my 72 107 and 85 123 for 20+ years)

But perhaps you can find a lower mileage 107 for equivalent price. Restoration costs shouldn't be much different - the cars share many of the same or at least similar parts. Rust can be a problem on both chassis. Floor pans are coated with a sound deadener making inspection difficult. Look for signs of water ingress. Stay away from cars that show any rust.

The gas engine does have known expensive needs at about 100k miles (timing chain & guides). Early 107s (72/73) have metal guides which means just chain needs replacing. If well maintained, the diesel engine doesn't need much more than regular valve adjustment and occasionally new glow plugs in first 300-500k miles.

The 107 convertible, does have the need for soft top replacement from time to time and interior items like carpets, seat covers. console etc do seem to deteriorate faster than on sedans.

If you intend to drive the car regularly, the diesels will win out. If just a fun car that will be kept indoors and driven on weekends, the 107 wins out! Better still, buy one of each!
 
#18 ·
Wow! I am so thankful for all those advices that have come in.
MY budget is no more than $2500 (which means I will end up spending $3000 anyways :D) - that includes costs to buy and fix immediate stuff to get things going. The car will be parked in a car shed if there's ever so chance of raining.

I have done a restoration for a '90 Volvo 240 (244 if you like for the sedan). It had 240K miles when I got it from the junkyard. No interior and some exterior trims missing. Timing belt had snapped. Body doesnt have bad rust and burns about 1/4th quart every 3500 mles between oil changes. Didnt have cat-back exhaust. Towed to dealer to get new TB & tensioner. Runs beautifully. Changed old vacuum lines and some wiring, got a whole matching interior over time, all exterior trims except for 1 fixed. AC, heater, sun roof, power windows, radio (got a '92 Toyota Camry cassette player in there), cruise control, stainless steel cat-back exhaust, all electrical shorts fixed, over drive everything works. Suspension is a bit worn out but I might fix that after I get out of college. As suggested, all rubber parts, belts & such from dealer or IPD only. 30K miles no problem :)

So $2000 for leaky top, worn seats and a bit neglected car with 181K miles is high? JoeB I will look into W123 also as suggested
So I have no proble
 
#26 ·
...MY budget is no more than $2500 (which means I will end up spending $3000 anyways :D) - that includes costs to buy and fix immediate stuff to get things going....
My opinion is that this is not realistic... This does not mean it is not possible. Stranger things have happened.

I would not expect much at this budget point. Double it, and I think you will have a much greater chance of success and enjoyment.

This and $3.00 might buy you a cup of joe at the local mug shop:).
 
#19 ·
As a recent purchaser, I can give you my opinions at no charge! First, do not buy the car unless you really love it. I almost bought one that I liked (not loved) that had issues like rust and not running plus it was not my favorite color combination. One tends to overlook the major issues that are right in front of you when initially pursuing. I was glad I waited a few months because I found the perfect car after that. Second and as others have said, pay more for a car in great shape with very little rust and one that has been well-maintained (bonus if documented). Third, realize it will break down and parts may be expensive or hard to get. Even if you are mechanically inclined and have the room to work on it, someone who understands older Mercedes nearby is a extremely helpful while you learn.

There are others tips, but an older Mercedes may not be for you if you are not patient. Take it from me, there are times my car tested my patience after only a few months of ownership, but I am back to loving it right now. There really are very few things as worthwhile as cruising on a warm summer evening with the top down or thinking “man, that car is beautiful” when walking up to it when parked.
 
#21 ·
As was said before, if this is your first foray into the world of Mercedes-Banz, I would look for a nice W126 or W123 Diesel to get started on. Thye are much easier to work on with lots of room under the hood, are basically bulletproof with the exceptions of the HVAC and sunroof systems, and will give you the confidence to take on a 107 later on. I had two W126 Diesels and having had them gave me that confidence to buy Monika, my $1500 450SL "Special"
V8 R107s are very tight under the hood and the Bosch/Mercedes fuel injection has left me scratching my head a few times, but they are a pleasure to drive once they are sorted.

Be aware though, they are like the Gremlins from the movie and if they get wet they will change rapidly - into piles of oxidation.
If you do not have garage space for it, get the W126 or W123.
 
#22 ·
These cars are very complex and can be hard. This one has a lot of issues, walk away. And another thing, never, never, ever be the first out of the gate with an offer. Tell the owner that you never put a value on another man's property. It is his job the set the price. Then you can negotiate if desired.
 
#23 ·
OMG - Buying a car that is nearly forty years old is a crap shoot at best. I have purchased two 450SL cars as "parts" cars and am driving both of them. One, the '75, cost $1500.00 and needs a paint job, but what blast to drive, it actually gets rubber! The other, a '76 bright red, looks great and runs great after a $3K purchase and less then $1K in DIY repairs. Are they perfect, no. But they both turn heads and are fun to drive. Perfection is the providence of the gods. Get the 450 and have fun with it.
 
#24 ·
This question hasn't been asked, but I guess it is pertinent...

Do you want a removable roof, or can you live with a fixed roof coupe with a sunroof?

Because an SLC is a 107, with a slightly longer wheelbase... and is a better 'driving' car, it just doesn't get the top-down attention from the co-eds that SL's do.
 
#25 ·
Would prefer to get a convertible. Plus I can always pretend with the hard top on - that I am driving a coupe.

I did find a '73 SLC that wasn't driven for 7 years and then the guy started driving it as-is without cleaning out the gas tank & lines and now it has some serious bucking/throttle issues.
 
#27 ·
Here's a 450 SLC from '73. And here is the description - "Run and drive , needs a little work , 80.000 miles been stored in garage for 10 years , but i enjoyed it last summer , ". I can get it for much below the $2500 target I had set and get enough money to fix it slowly.

He wants it gone tomorrow. Please advice
 

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#28 ·
Just wanted to add - it needs timing chain fixed. Its rattling. Also he said that is feels like someone is pressing the gas pedal on and off. $1550.

Can I buy it and fix it slowly to become a show car? Miles seem low.

Edit: He just dropped the price to $1250 - no lower.

How much is a timing chain job on these?
 
#29 ·
Darn, I suspect its worth that much in parts. That is if the parts
are in nice condition and you are able to part it and have the time
and space.
 
#30 ·
Question is: are these considered as classics? I don't plan to sell whichever Merc I buy - just to help my bloated ego :D

That being said - this car is going to need about $1700 for the new timing chain (MB shop) and guide and another $1000 or so for fixing the fuel stuff and whatever rubber that has deteriorated (DIY). Is it worth it?

I know everyone suggested getting something runs well from get go but for this price- it's a little too tempting.

Also, are the SLCs sought after or is it just the SLs?
 
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