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1980 450 SL Repair Reality Check

5K views 36 replies 15 participants last post by  SuedeGopher 
#1 ·
Howdy! I goofed up and joined another similarly named forum this morning in my bleary-eyed state. Now that I'm awake, I see that these are the droids I've been looking for. I've done some searching (on this forum, mostly) and I know things vary by region, but I wanted to bounce off some proposed spend for my newly aquired ride, ifn you'll indulge me. This is my first classic/restoration and I want to ensure I approach it logically, not just viscerally when it comes to the bills I plop down.

Condition:
The car is a 1980 450 with about 96k miles. Convertible top is in great shape and so is the hard one. The body is near perfect (though paint is dull, hoping a buffing will bring it back as the paint isn't damged), seats and armrest need recovering, but mostly she's dirty and has been sitting for a couple years. Took her for a thorough exam and here's what the locals came up with:

Leak in heater core $1,100
A/c to R134 $332
Center link tie rod $290
Diagnose/repair miss in fuel system $330
Alignment $110

Parts for the heater core job are $699 alone. Does this sound reasonable? All of this should get her mechanically sound save for the infamous vent vacuum repair and some hose/belt replacements. I'm not sure how much to invest here; I paid $1,800 and still need to shell out another $500 for tires plus an eventual upholstery job. I'd love to hear what you think the overall value might be and if the effort to repair will already exceed it!
 
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#2 ·
Ask if the alignment place has a pre-load bar. If not a specialty shop, ask to see it.

Real alignment for $100 is a deal.

Center link is a rip.

134 conversion is only part of a real job, by the price, and a potential waste.


The dash has to be pulled, I think, for core repair. Many potential hazards....judging from the reality displayed in tghe other estimates, not sure I would trust their reality in that area, either.


Do your own basic maintenance and see if any miss disappears.


The work always expands to meet the cash available.


Ymmv.
 
#3 ·
Welcome to the forum. Around my parts, a great example of our beloved 107's cost around $15,000. So if you figure the difference of what you paid and that small amount you have to put into it, you're set. Oh, and this is just the beginning. Tires are going to get you no matter what you drive. My Suburban is $200 a tire.

When you get the car driveable to your satisfaction, and you take her out on the highway, you hear that purr, and smell that exhaust, you'll be hooked!

I tell my friends she's cheaper than a Hyundai---IF you do your own work--- and that Hyundai won't be around in 30 years let alone five!

AND you get to drive one of the most loved cars in history!!!
 
#5 ·
Excellent advice rolling in - thank you! I'm not able to do many of the preliminary work myself - the car is in a different state from me at the moment :) Sounds like worst case, I can get her cleaned up and list her in Baltimore!

I think I found the part in question that costs $699 - the rest being labor to do the pull and install it:

https://unwiredtools.com/accii.asp

Regarding the center link tie rod assembly, parts come out to about $140 for the repair kit (bushings?) and the assembly.

We did some trouble shooting for the miss - checked for loose connections/obviously worn wires, fouled spark plugs, ran some injector cleaner through and some better gas with no result. I agree, kind of a iffy on that one...

I'll look into the alignment to see if it's legit.

Not sure about the comments on the a/c retrofit? It's blowing hot now and rather than throwing in the ol freon, figured it made sense to 'future proof' any ongoing maintenance.

I'm somewhat over a barrel on the repairs. My grand plan is to transport the car cross-country. Once it gets to its new home, I'll be providing the routine maintenance, but I need it road worthy for the journey. My resident mechanic in the family is overseeing the repairs - he wasn't of the opinion I was getting fleeced, but certainly wasn't making it out to be a bargain.
 
#11 ·
To do a 134 retrofit, new seals, oil, freon, and system flush would be required at an absolute (and poorly thought out ) minimum.

And they ain't even planning on doing that.


Find two cans R-12 for $20 each, and the hose required.

If that doesn't fix it, neither will throwing a poorly considered $300 do it, either.


Planning on driving the cross country ???????



Don't.
 
#6 ·
Is this an independent shop?

MB retail prices:
Center link 1074600605 $82.00 Includes the tie rods.
Heater core 1078350301 $535.00 Must remove the dash to replace so I have no idea what they are doing to repair a leak for $1,100.00. Why do you think the heater core is leaking? Liquid from the heater case could be blocked drain tubes and just water.
 
#8 ·
Yep, this is an independent shop. They've done work for the fam in the past, but mostly maintenance on a newer E class diesel.

Should have clarified, they said a leak in the heater control valve and were looking to do the climate control update. $82 is what they had listed for the link and an additional $58 for a 'repair kit.'

Also, YOU GUYS ROCK!
 
#7 ·
You'll probably want to add timing chain guide rails and tensioner onto your list of things to do if you don't know when the last time these were changed. Failure of those could leave your engine as a paper weight. There was a thread on here a few months back in which a gentleman traded his good running truck for a SL that was sitting in a barn for a while. Once he rolled it out and on the first start the guide broke and left a mess of the engine.

Our '76 had the timing guide rail break in half as well, but got lucky in that we didn't run it. Something else i would recommend you check. Over the years the plastic guides get brittle. Not something you want to gamble $8000 on.
 
#10 ·
I am not a fan of converting older A/C systems to 134. These older systems were sized for a freon that was much more efficient at cooling than R134. It then follows that converted systems do not cool as well. This might not make as much difference to you as it does to us living in Arizona where every little bit helps. Under the might as well catagory, whichever option you take to recharge the system it is prudent to replace the expansion valve and drier at the same time. Last but not least, find another mechanic if for no other reason than to get a second opinion.
 
#17 · (Edited)
  • Leak in heater core $1,100
  • A/c to R134 $332
  • Center link tie rod $290
  • Diagnose/repair miss in fuel system $330
  • Alignment $110
I'm not sure how much to invest here; I paid $1,800 and still need to shell out another $500 for tires plus an eventual upholstery job. I'd love to hear what you think the overall value might be and if the effort to repair will already exceed it!
I just got my 1980 450SL a few months ago. So I had a head start and did some of the same items you list. I keep a spreadsheet of all expenses so I can total it easily. I have no labor cost as I do everything myself except the alignment.

A/C to R134: No, don't do that. Freon 12 is designed for this vehicle and R134 is going out of use soon. I just got back from Atlanta where I picked up 30 pounds of R12 for $300. The stuff is still legal to use, just the manufacture is banned. You can get EPA certification as I did online. I got some good advice on this forum to use propane, or Enviro-Safe as a cheap R12 test fill to see how well the system holds pressure. I recommend it, search the term.
Total AC so far (no R12 yet, still testing)... $45.13

Center link tie rod. I replaced everything and recommend you do the same, if the center link is worn out the other components are not far behind.
  • Two tie rod end assemblies $33.52
  • Mevotech Idler arm bushing $20.99
  • Moog center link $45.79
  • Sachs steering damper $24.79
  • Stabilizer bar link $6.98
  • Febi swaybar bushing kit $24.13
  • All wheel alignment at Meineke $89.95

Diagnose/repair miss in fuel system. I replaced the fuel filter, yours is likely due. Beck Arney Filter $10.13
Please be more descriptive, does your engine misfire at high RPM? I have that problem at 3400RPM when engaging the automatic tranny passing gear. This will be the subject of a separate post.

Stuff you did not mention that I thought necessary:
Replaced all fluids,
  • DOT4, $8.59
  • Mercon III, $36.27
  • high ZDDP 10W40 oil; $13
  • Zerex G05 antifreeze plus distilled water, $50.97
  • Gear oil 80W90. $20.12
  • Mercon III also in power steering flush.
Replaced wear parts; spark plugs, air filter, oxygen sensor, hydraulic brake hoses, oil drain plug gasket, v-belt, oil filter, shift linkage bushings, four KYB high performance shock absorbers (wondering if OEM was better?); wiper blades, power steering filter; tranny filter.
Parts I am stockpiling and have not yet got around to installing:
Mercedes timing chain with 7 MB guides $149.95, R12, folding top rear weatherstrip $38.38, SWAG camshaft sprockets $54, MB camshaft oiler kit $12.15, valve cover gaskets $8.56 and crush washers, A/C receiver drier $6.71; a bunch of minor shit.
Tires and wheels: I went with Firehawk Indy 500 W-speed rated summer only 225/55R16 with custom 16 inch Platinum Apex wheels from Tirerack for $860.32
Roadworthy: Ohio historical vehicle registration was $28.95. Insurance with Hegarty was $53.00. Mercedes dealer used car inspection was $133.00.

So far the spreadsheet adds up to $1667.30. Definitely worth it. I am now considering purchasing a 4 post or a 2 post lift.
 
#18 ·
Okay, okay! R12 it is! Message received :)

Update - mechanic went through fuel system, checked injectors, plugs, wires, and blames the fuel distributor for the miss at idle and beyond (leaking internally, according to him). I've read they can be the culprit or the scapegoat, but he feels he's eliminated all the other options (fuel pump and filter were recently replaced by the prior owner). Thinking of going with an AutoHausAZ rebuild and having him install it. 520ish for the warranty carrying rebuild. He's willing to let us procure parts, so we'll get the centerlink goodies, as well.

Anyone have a good source for R12 in Phoenix?

Thanks again for the advice. Right now it's looking like a 3,000 investment (including the car) to get the car in roadworthy condition sans the climate control fix. I can live with that.

Oh, I keep a spreadsheet, too, but that's only because I'm in Excel all day anyway :)
 
#20 ·
Do a search here for 'Larry' or 'CIS Flowtech' regarding a source for the fuel distributor. Nothing against AHAZ, but they are a reseller, sending you someone else's product. Not much product support, other than return and replace. (Which they do quite well when needed, excellent CS in my experience) Flowtech however is a rebuilder, and more than a few contributors here have spoken very highly of their interactions with Larry when tech help has been needed.
 
#25 ·
Like Vacreeper, I also live in Phoenix. I have also been considering a conversion to R134 but all that has been said here is accurate. These a/c systems were not as good as the a/c system on virtually any American car. They were more like an afterthought. R12 is much more efficient than R134. There is actually plenty of R12 out there. For $19.95 and an hour's study, I took the EPA's open book exam and got an EPA 609 certificate, which lets one buy and install the stuff legally. I would also be concerned about your 34 year old hoses.
 
#28 ·
Thanks for the tip! I think I'll do just that!

Gopher. I know where there is a showroom new 450SL with 8K on the clock for less than $ 20K. If you could salvage yours or find another buyer to take over your just getting started clusterfuck. You will sleep better at night and not have to worry about whether the guy at the shop is hosing you or not. Oh...and the A/C works perfect. lol. But then again, I wouldn't want you to miss out on all that fun or riding in roll-backs and re-financing your house. Have fun. This thread has the potential to go on for years. Welcome to the asylum....now, I have to get back out to the garage and figure out how to fix my Heater/AC vents since they only blow out the center. Might as well pull the dash. Sooner or later, you'll be like me and lose that spread sheet...it will be painful to look at.
So years ago, when I first met my wife and she saw got to know my family and our penchant for swapping vehicles/restoring older cars, she mentioned how her favorite car in the whole wide world was the "old Mercedes convertibles." She's brought it up several times as the years have gone on and I would tell her that Mercedes weren't our bag and were money pits to boot, figure out a small block carbuerated GM to aspire to. Didn't stop her from mentioning it now and again.

We checked Craigslist on a lark while visiting Phoenix and found this beaut. Drove out to see her with my dad in tow; he has more than a few years of experience fixing up cars and while he's past the point where he can invest much elbow grease, he's got oodles of general car knowledge. We pulled up on a dirty white car with blue interior. Not much to look at, until you got up close and noticed that the body was PERFECT. The paint, while caked in dirt, looks like a light buffing will bring it back to life. The top looks brand new, carpets are great, visors were smacking us in the face on our short test drive and the leather seats need a refreshing, but all in all there's a lot to work with. I started feeling a bit daunted by what was before as we listend to the engine miss, but I saw my wife BEAMING as she looked the car over. She was in love.

The other day she told me how long her fixation with SLs has been going on. As she tells it, her fourth grade teacher and the one teacher everyone loved drove a red one to school. She grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood and that teacher with this car was something to aspire to. I was blown away - this was something that had been simmering since she had memories.

We're in a different place now than we were 15 years ago and I am lucky in that my best friend has (and has always had, for that matter) a VERY short list of wants. I'm finally knocking this one off her list. I think we'll go down the rabbit hole a little more as it's not stressing us out and we're excited to bring her back to life. I really do appreciate the advice - we're okay with spending on a toy where it matters and now I have a MUCH better baseline than when we started. The vibes on the car in general are still good and my wife is LOVING the research/reading aspect of it all. She's done more of the technical research than I have at this point. Onward we go!
 
#26 · (Edited)
Gopher. I know where there is a showroom new 450SL with 8K on the clock for less than $ 20K. If you could salvage yours or find another buyer to take over your just getting started clusterfuck. You will sleep better at night and not have to worry about whether the guy at the shop is hosing you or not. Oh...and the A/C works perfect. lol. But then again, I wouldn't want you to miss out on all that fun or riding in roll-backs and re-financing your house. Have fun. This thread has the potential to go on for years. Welcome to the asylum....now, I have to get back out to the garage and figure out how to fix my Heater/AC vents since they only blow out the center. Might as well pull the dash. Sooner or later, you'll be like me and lose that spread sheet...it will be painful to look at.
 
#27 ·
db51, sounds like you don't want to work on your car. Entirely appropriate, to each his own. I personally do not trust any mechanic to be as conscientious as I am in doing the job right. I think a lot of guys (mostly) with these cars enjoy the work.

I will offer friendly disagreement with your premise that a "showroom new 450SL @8k" offers peace of mind. The last year of production of the 450SL is 1980... several critical parts degrade with time, not miles, and it would be a major mistake to ignore that. This could be a long list, but it starts with plastic timing chain guides, tires, rubber bushings, weatherstrip, lubricants, fluids that absorb moisture, etc.

Here is a short video to illustrate this perspective, listen for the phrase "mint and worthless." MERCEDES COMMITS SUICIDE ! SAD OWNER NEVER ONCE GOT TO DRIVE IT - YouTube

I doubt if Gopher will lose the spreadsheet. I still maintain the one for my 1963 Continental purchased 31 years ago.
 
#35 ·
Previous owner put the wrong warm-up regulator on her at some point - that's a new fun expense. Glad we sent it and the FD off to someone who knows what they're doing!

New plan is to finish up this fuel mess at the repair shop and take redelivery of the car to do a bit more ourselves (they'll be reinstalling the newly cleaned tank, lines, new filter and screen + new injectors). We'll farm out the work on the centerlink and the alignment and take a shot at a few of the other items like the ACCII fix and the freon (thanks to this forum on the less expensive ACCII and the tips on keeping R-12). I think that'll do all the mechanical save the hoses/belts/fluids. Need to take a peek for wear on the timing chain, but all indications are positive there.

I've seen the oedistributor links, but I haven't devined how to figure out the part numbers of what I need. Could someone educate me? I would like to replace everything that makes sense while repairing ye old centerlink. Thanks again for all of the guidance - doing our best to follow it!
 
#36 ·
I haven't devined how to figure out the part numbers of what I need. Could someone educate me? I would like to replace everything that makes sense while repairing ye old centerlink. Thanks again for all of the guidance - doing our best to follow it!
Download the EPC it is free. You have the same car as mine so the screenshot below likely applies to you, but you are better off putting in your own VIN to be sure of the right part numbers. For some reason the tie rod ends are on a separate page; I recommend the kit that includes both ends and center rod.
EPC-net Online
 

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