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Is it a 380?

4K views 40 replies 14 participants last post by  strife2 
#1 ·
I'm new to the forum and hoping you can help me sniff out a rat!

I'm looking at an SL advertised/badged as a 560 but VIN indicates 380 so I suspect its a 380. Are there any visual cues to distinguish the 560 from the 380?

My first clue was that model year was '84 and research indicated 560 began in '86. Am I correct that '84 380 did away with the single timing chain?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Oh, its a California car w/102k miles "in good condition" hard top/soft top. Any ballpark on pricing?

Many thanks!
 
#3 ·
...I'm looking at an SL advertised/badged as a 560 but VIN indicates 380 so I suspect its a 380. Are there any visual cues to distinguish the 560 from the 380?
If it is advertised as a 560 and is other, run away. Only someone of unscrupulous character would advertise such, unless just totally stupid. Either way, you're not gonna get an informed answer to any interrogative. Not much visually to go one. VIN is best bet. Door handles, third brake light, wheels, are not reliable as they can be changed/added. Airbag in steering wheel is another 560 clue. Black rocker/valve covers are an engine clue to a 560.

My first clue was that model year was '84 and research indicated 560 began in '86. Am I correct that '84 380 did away with the single timing chain?
Correct, in 1984 in the USA imported cars, the timing chain was switched back to a double. All euro 107's had double-row chains, from what I have read. Only 380's exported to US had single, in the years 1981-1983.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Oh, its a California car w/102k miles "in good condition" hard top/soft top. Any ballpark on pricing? Many thanks!
Read the stickies at the top of the forum. Loads of info there.
 
#4 ·
First, what were you looking at with the VIN? Of course you can check the year, but I'd also do a checksum of the digits and see if that matches the checksum in the VIN, since few people know how to do that.

Are you getting the VIN off the vehicle, or is this an LD sale?

I think I still have a program I wrote that'll do that. (If not, I know I posted it here, somewhere, ages ago.) You can probably also check on the VIN with the Mercedes Classic center.

I'm not sure, so someone can add more, but wasn't there also a difference in the climate controls from the 380 to the 560?

I did a lot of research before buying my 1985 380SL. I wanted a 380, since I use it a lot and was more interested in gas mileage than in speed. (And after a vacuum issue was fixed, it gets 20MPH or more on pretty much every tank.) I can back up what's been said: The 1984 and 1985 380SLs do have a double row timing chain and there were NO 560s before 1986.
 
#7 ·
Thank you!!!!

Wow, great feedback - thank you.

I spoke with the Owner by phone and he pulled the VIN from the car (WDBBA45A3EA008527). Its my understanding E = 1984 and 5th place "A" is 380. If it were a "D" it would be 560.

He's an old guy and I'm guessing someone sold him the car as a 560. The brakelight would be an easy confirmation and at $5k he's not out of line even for a running 380 with a hardtop and dual timing chain but not the find I was hoping it was. I might still take a look at it. Thx.
 
#23 ·
The doors might have been strong at the beginning, but I'm afraid the re-inforced doors on the 107's were not introduced until the Australian Design Rules required them in 1977.

All the info is in the EPC.

My 1973 450SL definitely did not have side intrusion bars.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Ok, so the car was a 380SL (although tac redline was at 6000), no rust, new soft top, hard top w/cracked glass, under the hood clean although washer reservoir was MIA, exhaust blows plenty of smoke on cold start up but idles fine. power windows, non-stock radio, no AC but the heat and blowers work fine. Initial thoughts on value - if any? Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to run a Carfax or have a mechanic check it out. Thanks again for all of the insight!
 
#30 · (Edited)
...hard top w/cracked glass...
This may not be true where you live, but a good used hardtop is a better option than repairing the glass on that one if it is the rear glass. There is no aftermarket supplier, apparently, and that glass is VERY expensive. But, I suppose that anywhere there are 107's, there are probably more hardtops than there are non-junked cars, and many of those will be "hardly used", in someone's garage.

BEWARE of the little things that cost. Unless perfectly stored over the last 20+ years, the two trim pieces under the back of the sides of the hardtop will get bent, for example. They are about $200 per side. Check the price of a washer bottle, it's startling. 200 there, 500 there, 1000 there, and all of a sudden, it starts adding up.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Cars in the US definitely required these door reinforcements after 1970. I wouldn't even consider any car made before 1970 as a daily driver for this reason alone. I know someone who was seriously injured in a T-bone type accident (blown stop sign) in a residential area (<30 MPH), while driving a 1968 Camaro. The door crumpled like a leaf, and so did his hip.

I noticed on the auctions recently that an apparently "legal" non-concours upgrade that doesn't hurt the value of early musclecars is dual-system braking, where a complete brake failure due to a failed line or seal is not possible. This is another BIG safety improvement, IMO, required in 1968.
 
#31 ·
BTW, people do change out engines. The easiest way that is emissions/country/exhaust independent to tell the difference between an M116(380) and M117 (560) is by looking at the front of the intake manifold. They are very different castings.

The fastest way I know to conclusively tell the difference between a 380 and 560 is, as mentioned, the door handles. I saw a 380 that was visually absolutely impossible to tell from an 88/89 560 EXCEPT for this. The owner told me that he built it from two cars! He even swapped the seats, knee bolster and put the dash panel with the recirculating switch in! Actually grafting a 560 door handle or even its doors to a 380 would probably cost deep four figures in skill and labor - no one in their right mind would do this.
 
#32 ·
31 posts and no one has asked the original poster to fill in his location and other parts of his profile?

$3500 for the car is unrealistically low. A 380SL that smokes a bit and looks pretty good will bring $5000 all day long. Which one of our posters would sell their 107 roadster for less than $5000? As a point of reference: an insurance total 1977 450SL, 110,000 miles, brown metallic w/tan interior, damage to right front. Specifically replace right fender and headlight, blend paint on adjacent panels and repair right inner apron-sold on line from the Copart yard in OKC on Tuesday for $4500 to a buyer from Lebanon. Not Lebanon PA, rather the nation of Lebanon! Imagine the freight!

Guys, I'm not saying our cars are worth a Kings ransom, but I think we are way too critical when we discuss them with newbies and outsiders. Can you tell me another convertible from the same era that is worth as much, or more money?
 
#33 ·
Guys, I'm not saying our cars are worth a Kings ransom, but I think we are way too critical when we discuss them with newbies and outsiders. Can you tell me another convertible from the same era that is worth as much, or more money?
Well, it's true that a lot of people on this board are perfectionists. I think I take pretty good care of my cars, they look pretty good, but if I had financial manager permission, I could drop 2K of parts on them in about an hour, and maybe another 6K at the shop. In a way, I long for the days when I was younger and could drive a "beater".

I think everyone here except those with special experience, skills, and tools would agree, "buy the best example you can possibly afford, getting the best deal possible on it", because you'll be money ahead.

Another point a guy made to me a long time ago was "stick to your knitting". Consulting and working on "side projects" back then, I might have been worth 75 an hour doing what really I know how to do, when shop time by people who knew what THEY were doing was 40 an hour. So, was I (or am I) really better off doing it myself?
 
#34 ·
^^^
I'm sorry, but I'm not following what you are saying. I'm most concerned with what you think you can do that is worth $75 per hour "consulting", while people who are actually working on cars is worth only $40 per hour. Can you explain further?

This is a sincere question. No snark or smart-ass is intended.
 
#41 · (Edited)
The key words are "-consulting-" and "-back then-", in the beginning of dot-com era. I was getting paid pretty well for designing websites and executing them with Notepad and FTP. The point is, that there are some people who can definitely make more money doing what they know how to do than they can save working on a car themselves. For example, if you are a doctor making good money, it probably wouldn't make financial sense to clear your calendar and take a day off to tune-up and change the oil on your car. Of course, if you LIKE doing it and can afford to take a day off...

These days, I work on my cars because I like it AND I have to :)
 
#35 ·
I'm not Strife, but I take the statement to mean that it is more efficient for him to work at what he does well, and pay someone to do things they do well. In other words, one hour of Strife labor (at his job) gets two hours of car work done.

But that takes the fun out of it....
 
#37 · (Edited)
I agree with Chiefrider here. I paid US $8000 for my SL in good working condition and in 6 -8 months have spent close to 4000 in mainly rubber replacement parts - that are inevitable for cars that are 20+ years old.

Have not touched the engine, which is in great shape (knock on wood) or the body (small dings and no rust, really!) and the A/C works great, but there is plenty to spend on tires, seals, lines (fuel & brake), engine mounts , bushings (front & rear end), fluids (motor oil, trans, brake), interior details (as needed)... and the list "grows" on.

Great cars to drive, but be prepared to pay !!
 
#40 ·
Just for the record on the value:

I bought my 1985 380SL in March, 2007. It's still in like-new shape, except for wear on the seats and some fading on the carpet (and it's been polished so many times the paint is thinning in some places). When it was at the dealer to be inspected, after the service guys finished, lots of staff people kept coming out to look it over as word spread it was there.

I paid $6,300 or $6,500 for it (can't remember immediately) and when offered it for that price, for the first time ever, I didn't dicker. I said, "Yes, taken!" as fast as I could, since I knew they were about to put it on eBay and figured it'd go for much more there.

It's insured through USAA and they have told me they value it at over $19,000.

(They also valued my 1973 450SL at over $12,000.)
 
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