Location: Currently in SoCal, originally from far far away
Posts: 142
Well done on the post and images.
Great description of what will remain as a potential failure point on these cars as long as they are still rolling.
A reinforcement job is probably prudent action to avoid future failures. I could join the chorus and lambaste Mercedes for their poor design or inconsistent execution of a major safety component, though I have been reassured by a SoCal MBZ dealer that the incidence of cracking were never very high and the total failures could be counted on the fingers of one hand over the course of some 25 years.
While I don't see any subframe cracking on the two R107 examples I have on hand, the updated subframe, ala 560SL from '86 onwards, looks to be easily approximated. A new subframe from the usual sources is an $800 proposition. Given the time commitment and cost, it's not worth it if you have an otherwise undamaged subframe, or a damaged subframe on a later car not covered by the recall (or just have a local dealer that doesn't care to fix it).
From the images, the gusset kit doesn't appear to have boxed in the tabs at all (two pieces a side, not a third member to join the gussets). The eyelets for the control arms appear to be another point of weakness unaddressed by the gussets. The particularly bad (rusted and cracked?) image could probably only be salvaged by cutting off the top of the tab and fabricating a new eyelet to weld on. For the boxing in that the gussets don't provide and get closer to the upgraded part without the same cost/complexity, another piece of flat steel, bent over sharply at the edges (or just plain flat and welded at the edges), would do a good job to bridge the gussets together. The two drainage holes seen in the image on the upgraded subframe shows the boxed in tabs should be retained.
From the images, I'd say the gusset kit is nothing special. With dimensions handy, you could probably fabricate these fairly easily and actually improve on them. Anyone have precise dimensions?
I have an acquaintance who is a professional welder that is still trying to convince me that he can TIG weld almost anything in-situ. I posed it to him today after seeing this post and he confidently stated he could weld up reinforcements with subframe in place. That would of course be preferable, considering the labor cost of disconnecting and dropping engine/trani out on the subframe, then dollying the engine/trani to work on the subframe all by itself.
While I would like to say I trust his work overall, welding isn't my expertise. If anyone has any further thoughts on TIGing the reinforcements in-situ, I'd like to hear it before volunteering my otherwise serviceable un-cracked subframe. If I take the plunge, I'll post images of the retrofit to '86 era "upgraded" boxed in subframe axle-carrier configuration.
Hi All,
Well, I know this is a ongoing condition and that some new owners my not know just what to look for. we have many pictures here available but I thought may just a couple more mite help idenitify the condition, therefore I have added 2 more. 1 = the old original frame that was removed and the second is the new factory up-graded replacement frame.
Jerry 1977 280SL (Euro)
Last edited by isthisdave : 07-11-2009 at 01:35 PM.
Reason: Thread Continuity
Location: Currently in SoCal, originally from far far away
Posts: 142
Does anyone have dimensions on the gussets and the plate dimensions on the upgraded subframe? I am seeking out someone locally to take a ruler to the parts on hand, but local dealers aren't keeping such old shelf-warmer type parts and aren't willing to ship without a commitment to buy. While $130 or so for the gussets isn't ridiculous by MBZ standards, it's about $0.50 worth of mild steel, full dollar worth to fully box in the subframe axle carrier tabs per the 560SL subframe upgrade.
Location: Currently in SoCal, originally from far far away
Posts: 142
What luck!
An acquaintance and former employee of one of the local MBZ dealers who until recently had a gray market 500SL badged car came by with "gifts" today. He told me he had sold the car some weeks ago to cousin, well below value apparently and was now parting with the odds and ends left in his garage. Among the valuables, there there were; a bag of unused sub frame gussets! He had apparently intended to reinforce the subfame himself, had gone so far as to obtain the gussets from his former employer, then got cold feet on his welding abilities and sold the car with it's original (albeit un cracked) front subframe.
He had taken the car to the MBZ dealer before he purchased it with special directions given to inspect the subframe for any signs of stress cracks. The dealer had given the car a clean bill of health and stated no retrofit was required. If it had been, it was clear it would be at owners expense (though as a former employee, I'm sure he would have gotten a better than average deal). It's not clear what he might have known nor what he might simply have worried about that prompted him to get the gussets in the first place, but perhaps that's just as well.
With no R107 darkening his driveway anymore, we parted with several bits and pieces passed to me, including a fairly new looking wind noise deflector and some spare seat covers. These he quickly disgorged from his trunk and onto my driveway. It was clear from his expression that the prior sale of his garage toy and the elimination of surplus components was under orders from the woman of the house. With a baby on the way, it was clear she had invoked that most potent form of "imminent domain" with her rousing nesting instincts and attendant emotional distress, this leaving no other choice for any man seeking peace in the home, or at the very least, self preservation. I wish him well.
Observations of the gussets up close, for those who may still elect to make their own include that they are fairly nicely made. The transitions are nicely rounded to avoid stress buildup along sharp edges. While rather uncomplicated to copy, care needs to be taken when you heat the steel to bend it in the vice (which was my original plan) to form the angle of the lip.
Since this is an American site, dimensions all in inches:
1/8 mild steel stock, black enamel coated plain steel
4 1/16 inches in length
1 5/16 inches at the tallest dimension
3/8 L shaped bend on the long bottom dimension that is welded up to the subframe.
build the pairs as mirror images of each other. The left pair and right pair are of course, identical.
Last edited by BenzHacker : 07-11-2009 at 02:24 PM.
Reason: image additions for gussets
What is the Offical Mercedes Benz recall statment for the 107 subframe?
years?
makes
parts?
labor?
According to the letter I have from M-B USA (see above post), the subframe recall covered the 350SL, 450SL, and 450SLC only.
I'm still puzzled as to why the letter was sent to the original owner of my car. Based on everything I've read, the 560SL already had the updated subframe and therefore should not have been subject to the recall.
I'm new here and just came across this thread. I just inherited a '83 380sl and am wondering what exactly I should do in regards to the Subrame recall. Do I just go to the local dealership here in Albuquerque and ask them to look at it? Is there a way I can find out if this car has already been fixed? I found some recent paperwork from a mechanic saying what needs to be done to the car and subframe mount replacement was on that list. I've only had the car for a couple weeks and any help would be appreciated.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Linear Mode
