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Euro 450SL Engine #??? Help, please!!

6K views 42 replies 19 participants last post by  Fotografa 
#1 ·
Hey R/C107 owners, I humbly ask for your help: the cams in my father's '73 450SL are going, going, gone so he and I thought of replacing them with some European cams. We've gone to a friend at the dealer, but he is unable to find the correct parts without a European 450SL engine number. Can anyone provide me with this information, or at least point me in the right direction?

Many thanks in advanced,
seph :)
 
#2 ·
So, what exactly is it that you are after?

Do you want to know a specific engine number? Do you want to know the location of the engine number on the block?

Or are you after the number series for Euro 450 engines?

Cheers

Foto
 
#9 ·
My '72 is european and is a 107043. As I've heard the history, the NA 107's first came over with 350sl badges, but with a lower compression 4.5l to meet emission regs in the US. 450sl badges were sent over to replace the 350's and keep the name/displacement the same. From '73 on, the NA 107's were 450sl's and the euro 107's were 350sl's.
I assume the cams are physically interchangeable, but again, the cam's specs may be different to account for the displacement and compression difference.
 
#10 ·
Would I not get more power from the Euro cams? I was told that there were 3 different type SLs -- European SLs, 49 State SLs, and California SLs (being that emissions in California has always been tough). I do live in California, so I'm thinking that my SL is of the weakest of the bunch, horsepower wise. Still, does anyone else have any information on this subject?
It would be awesome to get 30ish HP more from the car with Euro cams after it gains all the HP back it has lost from the shot cams it currently has. :p
 
#15 ·
Okay, well according to the parts catalogue, there were two sets of camshafts for the 450SL, the first set (part numbers 1160515601 left, and 1160515701 right) were used on 117982 engines, up to 035995 and then again from engine number 036326 and then and the 2nd type (part number 1170510001 left, and 1170510101 right) were used on all 117985 engines, and 117982 engines from 035996 to 036325.

Hope this helps.
 
#18 ·
I'd make sure you have the high compression engine b/f changing the cam. I think Slowrider is right. I don't think simply changing the cam will give you tons of power. You'd probably also have to do all the bits and pieces like springs. Good luck!
 
#20 ·
You know, I read this thread twice and I have no idea what, who, wants.
Even if I knew EVERYTHING I wouldn't know how to answer.

Hey...xx7sephiroth7xx...why don't you start over and ask the question again.
 
#21 ·
This thread is indeed convoluted...

From what I can see the OP has two questions:

1) Can he fit higher compression Euro cams to his father's, probably California, 450SL.

2) If YES to the above, does anyone have a European 450SL (350SL?) engine number which will enable his mechanic to source the parts.

Oh, and in case it helps, my '72 Euro 350SL engine number is: 11798312028818 :)
 
#27 ·
Just to add to the fun of confussion, Why doesn't he find the polished AMG cams made, that would fit his motor and get 15 hp or do what they did and opimize very part and camber of a 450 117 for 30hp. Kid the masters of the 117 motor only got an extra 15 to 30 hp in a stage 2 tuning and in stage 3 they only got up to 60 hp added to the 117 motor. And that was so much work it's beyond discription. As per the AMG Lounge

I don't think what your trying to do will give you what you want. I really feel you should just fix it with original correct MB part. You have a 73 (I'm not sure about CA) just ripe out all the emmission shit. Maybe that would help:rolleyes:
 
#31 ·
I posted on the 2nd thread just before too, For the money you would be paying just get youself some 350 M116 heads and slap them on there, more efficent specialy the early ones and will increase the compression slightly, should be good for "some" extra HP.

Or just go stock and slap Megasquirt in there controlling it with a Supercharger :)
 
#35 ·
No, 116.982 = Euro 350SL, 117.982 = U.S. 350SL. There really were no U.S. 350SL's, just early 450SL's with 350SL name plates.
 
#37 ·
I wonder how (much) compression gain can be achieved by a camshaft geometry?!

I've changed camshaft on my 450 M117985 and the original were with marks "01" and "02". I sourced replacement cams from an 450 M117 engine that was in SEL W116 car.

I know that there are "34" and "thirtysomething" marked cams from a 350 engine (M116982) and they can fit the M117 engine, I guess, as it was tried in my engine. Actualy, the previous mechanic replaced one cam (with "34") on this engine trying to solve worn cams problem without replacing/cleaning cam lube rail... it lasted a few hundred km's.

This is related to ROTW engines without castration, circumcision or choking contraptions on the engine.
 
#38 ·
The cam just controls the lift of the valves and the duration of them staying open. I guess if you were able to get a cam with less duration and stiffer springs you might be able to allow the engine to run faster, but I don't think it would really increase the compression, would it? I guess if the intake duration was quicker maybe the piston is sealed earlier in the stroke allowing for higher compression, but I really don't know. Maybe one of you folks can clarify it for me whether replacing a cam would increase compression. I thought they change the lift but don't know if they do the duration. You need stiffer springs to cut down on valve lash with the higher lift cam.
 
#40 · (Edited)
This is a complicated subject, there's compression (Static) and "effective/dynamic compression". A cam change can affect only the dynamic compression, but it is a big effect.

This is a really complicated subject, and before computer simulation, it was seat-of-the-pants/experience/voodoo art.

This is pretty good:

Dynamic CR
 
#42 ·
Just one additional thought that does not involve engine numbers. If this guy's motor has wiped out cams then most likely the entire engine is shot. At some point in the motor's life the lubrication system became compromised leading to the damaged cams. The cam bearings and valve guides will also be worn out causing improper valve seating and if the lubrication issue also affected the bottom end then the crankshaft bearings and piston bores may also have been damaged. In short if you are looking for more power pull the worn out M117 find a good used M116 3.5L motor to get 230 hp goodness.

Bill
 
#43 ·
Bill, what you say makes a lot of sense, but if he hasn't sorted it in the 2+ years since he posted about it, then I doubt it's gonna get sorted!

But welcome, hang around, and post that good stuff on more recent threads!
 
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