you make jay look like a mit graduate. You cant even answer the most basic questions. You don't have enough balls to answer questions but you go around correcting punctuation and calling people stupid.
go to number 23, that is my first post in ot. your boy has been called out ever since. You should be smarter than that, everyone knows hes a blabbering forum slut but you...You sound just like him..
now back to the topic bruce....shed some light please so I don't make you look silly. Could you please share your responses, since we have so patiently listened to your chaos theory on police...
This would be the second time in this post. REPOST
Bruce, I think i have told you this many times. If you're not for the constitutional rights of the people, then you're anti american.
Would you burn the constitution and start over with a new gov. run idea?
what freedoms really get under you skin, besides this one.?
"The First Amendment addresses the rights of freedom of religion (prohibiting Congress from establishing a religion and protecting the right to free exercise of religion), freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of petition."
Quote:
Never the less you have consistently sided with those that cause violence in public places, and against law and order, why is that?
Are you referring to the police in this statement, which would be the true creators of violence in the modern world. How can you be so for the destruction of american rights, hate the supreme law of america or be so against the constitution, and consider yourself American?........I would love to hear any intelligent response other than spreading your hate, to others, who do feel the constitutional freedoms and rights do matter..
Doubt I'll get a question answered from you though. Since I'm still waiting on the old, "where should they protest, if not the park?"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce, you demand everyone's views and place them in tyrannical categories of civil unrest.
bruce asks questions: people answer
people ask bruce questions: no answer
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 1991 300CE, a work in progress.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 13,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygunns1992
you make jay look like a mit graduate. You cant even answer the most basic questions. You don't have enough balls to answer questions but you go around correcting punctuation and calling people stupid.
go to number 23, that is my first post in ot. your boy has been called out ever since. You should be smarter than that, everyone knows hes a blabbering forum slut but you...You sound just like him..
now back to the topic bruce....shed some light please so I don't make you look silly. Could you please share your responses, since we have so patiently listened to your chaos theory on police...
This would be the second time in this post. REPOST
Bruce, I think i have told you this many times. If you're not for the constitutional rights of the people, then you're anti american.
Would you burn the constitution and start over with a new gov. run idea?
what freedoms really get under you skin, besides this one.?
"The First Amendment addresses the rights of freedom of religion (prohibiting Congress from establishing a religion and protecting the right to free exercise of religion), freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of petition." Are you referring to the police in this statement, which would be the true creators of violence in the modern world. How can you be so for the destruction of american rights, hate the supreme law of america or be so against the constitution, and consider yourself American?........I would love to hear any intelligent response other than spreading your hate, to others, who do feel the constitutional freedoms and rights do matter..
Doubt I'll get a question answered from you though. Since I'm still waiting on the old, "where should they protest, if not the park?"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce, you demand everyone's views and place them in tyrannical categories of civil unrest.
bruce asks questions: people answer
people ask bruce questions: no answer
If a fruit cake could talk, this ^ is what it would sound like...
.
__________________ "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens firearms are indelibly related." George Washington
"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions." Justice Clarence Thomas
wolf
Naomi Wolf
guardian.co.uk, Friday 25 November 2011 12.25 EST
Article history
Brandon Watts lies injured as Occupy Wall Street protesters clash with police in Zuccotti Park
Occupy Wall Street protester Brandon Watts lies injured on the ground after clashes with police over the eviction of OWS from Zuccotti Park. Photograph: Allison Joyce/Getty Images
US citizens of all political persuasions are still reeling from images of unparallelled police brutality in a coordinated crackdown against peaceful OWS protesters in cities across the nation this past week. An elderly woman was pepper-sprayed in the face; the scene of unresisting, supine students at UC Davis being pepper-sprayed by phalanxes of riot police went viral online; images proliferated of young women – targeted seemingly for their gender – screaming, dragged by the hair by police in riot gear; and the pictures of a young man, stunned and bleeding profusely from the head, emerged in the record of the middle-of-the-night clearing of Zuccotti Park.
But just when Americans thought we had the picture – was this crazy police and mayoral overkill, on a municipal level, in many different cities? – the picture darkened. The National Union of Journalists issued a Freedom of Information Act request to investigate possible federal involvement with law enforcement practices that appeared to target journalists. The New York Times reported that "New York cops have arrested, punched, whacked, shoved to the ground and tossed a barrier at reporters and photographers" covering protests. Reporters were asked by NYPD to raise their hands to prove they had credentials: when many dutifully did so, they were taken, upon threat of arrest, away from the story they were covering, and penned far from the site in which the news was unfolding. Other reporters wearing press passes were arrested and roughed up by cops, after being – falsely – informed by police that "It is illegal to take pictures on the sidewalk."
In New York, a state supreme court justice and a New York City council member were beaten up; in Berkeley, California, one of our greatest national poets, Robert Hass, was beaten with batons. The picture darkened still further when Wonkette and Washingtonsblog.com reported that the Mayor of Oakland acknowledged that the Department of Homeland Security had participated in an 18-city mayor conference call advising mayors on "how to suppress" Occupy protests.
To Europeans, the enormity of this breach may not be obvious at first. Our system of government prohibits the creation of a federalised police force, and forbids federal or militarised involvement in municipal peacekeeping.
I noticed that rightwing pundits and politicians on the TV shows on which I was appearing were all on-message against OWS. Journalist Chris Hayes reported on a leaked memo that revealed lobbyists vying for an $850,000 contract to smear Occupy. Message coordination of this kind is impossible without a full-court press at the top. This was clearly not simply a case of a freaked-out mayors', city-by-city municipal overreaction against mess in the parks and cranky campers. As the puzzle pieces fit together, they began to show coordination against OWS at the highest national levels.
Why this massive mobilisation against these not-yet-fully-articulated, unarmed, inchoate people? After all, protesters against the war in Iraq, Tea Party rallies and others have all proceeded without this coordinated crackdown. Is it really the camping? As I write, two hundred young people, with sleeping bags, suitcases and even folding chairs, are still camping out all night and day outside of NBC on public sidewalks – under the benevolent eye of an NYPD cop – awaiting Saturday Night Live tickets, so surely the camping is not the issue. I was still deeply puzzled as to why OWS, this hapless, hopeful band, would call out a violent federal response.
That is, until I found out what it was that OWS actually wanted.
The mainstream media was declaring continually "OWS has no message". Frustrated, I simply asked them. I began soliciting online "What is it you want?" answers from Occupy. In the first 15 minutes, I received 100 answers. These were truly eye-opening.
The No 1 agenda item: get the money out of politics. Most often cited was legislation to blunt the effect of the Citizens United ruling, which lets boundless sums enter the campaign process. No 2: reform the banking system to prevent fraud and manipulation, with the most frequent item being to restore the Glass-Steagall Act – the Depression-era law, done away with by President Clinton, that separates investment banks from commercial banks. This law would correct the conditions for the recent crisis, as investment banks could not take risks for profit that create fake derivatives out of thin air, and wipe out the commercial and savings banks.
No 3 was the most clarifying: draft laws against the little-known loophole that currently allows members of Congress to pass legislation affecting Delaware-based corporations in which they themselves are investors.
When I saw this list – and especially the last agenda item – the scales fell from my eyes. Of course, these unarmed people would be having the shit kicked out of them.
For the terrible insight to take away from news that the Department of Homeland Security coordinated a violent crackdown is that the DHS does not freelance. The DHS cannot say, on its own initiative, "we are going after these scruffy hippies". Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee, who naturally is influenced by his fellow congressmen and women's wishes and interests. And the DHS answers directly, above King, to the president (who was conveniently in Australia at the time).
In other words, for the DHS to be on a call with mayors, the logic of its chain of command and accountability implies that congressional overseers, with the blessing of the White House, told the DHS to authorise mayors to order their police forces – pumped up with millions of dollars of hardware and training from the DHS – to make war on peaceful citizens.
But wait: why on earth would Congress advise violent militarised reactions against its own peaceful constituents? The answer is straightforward: in recent years, members of Congress have started entering the system as members of the middle class (or upper middle class) – but they are leaving DC privy to vast personal wealth, as we see from the "scandal" of presidential contender Newt Gingrich's having been paid $1.8m for a few hours' "consulting" to special interests. The inflated fees to lawmakers who turn lobbyists are common knowledge, but the notion that congressmen and women are legislating their own companies' profitsis less widely known – and if the books were to be opened, they would surely reveal corruption on a Wall Street spectrum. Indeed, we do already know that congresspeople are massively profiting from trading on non-public information they have on companies about which they are legislating – a form of insider trading that sent Martha Stewart to jail.
Since Occupy is heavily surveilled and infiltrated, it is likely that the DHS and police informers are aware, before Occupy itself is, what its emerging agenda is going to look like. If legislating away lobbyists' privileges to earn boundless fees once they are close to the legislative process, reforming the banks so they can't suck money out of fake derivatives products, and, most critically, opening the books on a system that allowed members of Congress to profit personally – and immensely – from their own legislation, are two beats away from the grasp of an electorally organised Occupy movement … well, you will call out the troops on stopping that advance.
So, when you connect the dots, properly understood, what happened this week is the first battle in a civil war; a civil war in which, for now, only one side is choosing violence. It is a battle in which members of Congress, with the collusion of the American president, sent violent, organised suppression against the people they are supposed to represent. Occupy has touched the third rail: personal congressional profits streams. Even though they are, as yet, unaware of what the implications of their movement are, those threatened by the stirrings of their dreams of reform are not.
Sadly, Americans this week have come one step closer to being true brothers and sisters of the protesters in Tahrir Square. Like them, our own national leaders, who likely see their own personal wealth under threat from transparency and reform, are now making war upon us.
• This article was amended on 30 November 2011. The original said incorrectly that the Committee to Protect Journalists was one of the organisations that filed a Freedom of Information Act request to investigate possible federal involvement with law enforcement practices that appeared to target journalists. The article also referred to "kale derivatives"; this was a typographical error for "fake derivatives", amended on 1 December 2011
If you watch the complete rage in this po lice officers face it will make you think. wow.
he starts at 1:10,
there is 100's of cases of police putting in undercover officers amongst the protest ors to pose as protest ors. They start the violence so the po lice have a good enough reason to beat the people. Can someone explain to me how this is ok with so many?
This next video shows how many po lice are breaking their own codes and national laws by not wearing badges anymore. They are not making their numbers available either.
I don't hate po lice officers, I do however think the percent that has lost control should be dealt with. Of course I think that some protest ors will deserve force, where i have the problem is the "excessive"
-guy already in police custody (jail) getting beat
-a blind, deaf, or any handicapped person getting face planted to the ground
-senseless anger or rage like the police officer in the first video, that is a disaster waiting to happen........
In my opinion they have a thankless job. Most people don't want them around unless something is happening to them. They are a victim to the American state of fear. They are underpaid and overworked. I have friends who are police, If i ever seen them beat a helpless person while a cop or civilian, I would hold the same disgust towards the situation. Being as police are sworn in "to serve and protect" makes it worse...who are they serving?
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 1991 300CE, a work in progress.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 13,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygunns1992
In my opinion they have a thankless job. Most people don't want them around unless something is happening to them. They are a victim to the American state of fear. They are underpaid and overworked. I have friends who are police, If i ever seen them beat a helpless person while a cop or civilian, I would hold the same disgust towards the situation. Being as police are sworn in "to serve and protect" makes it worse...who are they serving?
Every once in a while, you show some common sense. You should think about what you wrote here and remember most cops are just human beings and subject to human failings just like any other individual..
Bruce I would never judge all cops by the actions of a percentage of bad ones.
I have a few friends who are police. Everyone should know its a high pressure job with a high suicide rate. They are underpaid and in a hell of a spot with all that is going on. plus all i said in the above.
I think this thing or wherever were headed as a country has a lot of people on high tension, including police.
I do think that people in general and Some po lice do some really stupid things. Police are just like every other group of people, being there is some that are really good hearted and then some really evil .....
as you can probably tell I'm for the constitution and not giving up our freedoms, which seems to be surrounding us in an alarming rate. I'm for america the way it used to be, It is a scary and defining moment in us history. I just want us to prevail with the american spirit still intact, we have to change some things though.
as far as you and I go....I don't want another j ay enemy, lets just move on, I will not post anymore pics directed towards you or personal attacks with the name calling. There will be times we disagree, I'm sure, (laughing), but if we keep it to the facts of our arguments, then no long term grudges will get in the way of conversation...
through all our back and forth, I think I understand where you're coming from finally and I think I know why you cant put all your comments out there..
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 1991 300CE, a work in progress.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 13,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygunns1992
Bruce I would never judge all cops by the actions of a percentage of bad ones.
I have a few friends who are police. Everyone should know its a high pressure job with a high suicide rate. They are underpaid and in a hell of a spot with all that is going on. plus all i said in the above.
I think this thing or wherever were headed as a country has a lot of people on high tension, including police.
I do think that people in general and Some po lice do some really stupid things. Police are just like every other group of people, being there is some that are really good hearted and then some really evil .....
as you can probably tell I'm for the constitution and not giving up our freedoms, which seems to be surrounding us in an alarming rate. I'm for america the way it used to be, It is a scary and defining moment in us history. I just want us to prevail with the american spirit still intact, we have to change some things though.
as far as you and I go....I don't want another j ay enemy, lets just move on, I will not post anymore pics directed towards you or personal attacks with the name calling. There will be times we disagree, I'm sure, (laughing), but if we keep it to the facts of our arguments, then no long term grudges will get in the way of conversation...
through all our back and forth, I think I understand where you're coming from finally and I think I know why you cant put all your comments out there..
Now THERE is something I can go along with. You're on!
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