Hi Jim, I agree we do not agree with each other. And I respect your viewpoint for sure.
Not sure if you would consider this as a degree of proof for the bible. Bible is a collection of books, written by man. And the oldest part of the bible is >3000 year old, and yet no fault was found. The prophesy of the bible that has already happened are proven correct (you can pm vark, he has lots of "evidence"). When I look at my science books and medical books, there are so many changes in 1-2 years, new concepts to prove the old ones incorrect, new info to decline our old practice. And the Bible remains unchanged.
What about if you can give me convincing proof that certain part of the bible is incorrect, I will not believe in Christ?
I do not seek to change your belief in Christ. I merely point out that your rationale or explanations for events on earth describe a God I don't believe has anything to do with Christ. I believe in Christ to the extent that I believe his lessons are and life was a meaningful addition to Western culture regarding how to live in peace with one another.
I don't think Jesus was illiterate. He could have written huge sections of the Bible had he been so inclined. He didn't. Other people associated with organized religion did. And that the the failure.
The evidence you cite for the predictions in the Bible requires you to swallow a lot of extraneous bullshit in the way of explaining the details of what many words actually meant. The kinds of logic and thorough examination that are not reliable enough to have been used to build a bridge from a fallen tree. Sorry. I have heard the "evidence" and it is just more folklore to me. Might as well be Beowulf you are talking about. Or Roswell. All too contorted to pass Occam's Razor. Folklore. Much more reliable explanation.
... I believe in Christ to the extent that I believe his lessons are and life was a meaningful addition to Western culture regarding how to live in peace with one another...
Jim
Jim, God/Jesus love you, these have been revealed to you be Christ. Your subconsciousness is trying to quote from the bible: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
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__________________ iluvJESUS
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God,
"who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8
Like ILJ,
The convincing points to consider (amongst many other things ) is the MASSIVE amounts of prophetic predictions made the coming true of a major number of these events.
Considering the dates the books were written (thousands of years prior to some events) until fulfillment the number is staggering. The accuracy is also staggering.
We are talking Christ being talked of clear back in Genesis with Moses as author.
If you were a gambler, you could not imagine odds that good.
In Christs description, family lineage, actions, death (along with complete descriptions) and resurrection, there are a good 65+ from OT alone on who he was and what was to happen.
Sounds like your evidence source is not good.
Sorry for the late reply. As Vard has mentioned before, to us this is about just and judgment (If it really did happened that way)
From a position of affirmation or denial, we know that God or its absence will kill everyone who lives in this world without discrimination and by all means imaginable. If that weren't so its existence would have long since been proven.
Proven with me, A2
I see the workings of the Spirit in my life, which tells me the rest is active as well, just like the writing have stated. Seen it in other folks lives as well. Can't have the one without the other 2. (trinity concept)
Like ILJ,
The convincing points to consider (amongst many other things ) is the MASSIVE amounts of prophetic predictions made the coming true of a major number of these events.
Considering the dates the books were written (thousands of years prior to some events) until fulfillment the number is staggering. The accuracy is also staggering.
We are talking Christ being talked of clear back in Genesis with Moses as author.
If you were a gambler, you could not imagine odds that good.
In Christs description, family lineage, actions, death (along with complete descriptions) and resurrection, there are a good 65+ from OT alone on who he was and what was to happen.
Sounds like your evidence source is not good.
Like I said the degree to which any Biblical fairy tale "predicts" anything in the future is highly dependent on how much interpretive arrangement of words attributed to translation errors and all manner of bullshit you are willing to accept. And the compilation of fables that makes up the Bible as we know it today was all done after the major events you say the document predicts. It is hardly a believable case.
And, we have been down this path before. The age of the earth, its spot in the solar system (sun revolving around the earth) and nearly every other verifiable "scientific" fact it contains has turned out to be bullshit. That does not leave a lot of basis to believe the loosely strung together "predictions" that are described using the special decoder ring language interpreter you use.
Jim
I haven't even touched into earth age and things of that nature, but where do you get that Biblical writings conflict with your science on that front. Gen 1: 1 God created the heavens and the earth. Age , sun as center, planets revolving , big bang are all undefined. Get past that it gets into translation from Hebrew to English issues, but the Hebrew is the authority there. Some have strange views, and I have my own which I am unsure of, so I won't go into that, since I am not absolutely sure.
As far as all those prophetic writings and trying to spin them so they work, as you elude to,,, Nope, they are straight up and obvious. No twisting necessary. Even in English the translations catch it straight on and in your face, and it is the same in Hebrew. There is some truth to translational differences in some items, but the ones related to Jesus, and who he is are smack down in your face, right on.
Pick one, any one and show me how the one set of words has anything specific to do with the next, and then tell me where the compilations and translations came from, when, and who. It is like listening to a witch doctor doing voodoo shit. It could mean anything.
Well. I'm not gonna hand hold you through these.
They're there for you to do your own look see.
I've chased many down in the past (not all) and the meaning from OT is pretty clear.
If you want to tell yourself they don't correlate, you haven't looked, or you are taking someone else's opinion on things. It is good to form your own, and not believe others.
I am not asking you to believe me. I give you this so you can do your own digging, and then choose.
Suggestion: if you do do this. Never just take a verse and try and tie it to another somewhere else to another verse. Read the lead up to the verse(s) on each end (OT to NT) to see how they tie. That gives you the flavor going in.
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