FTL
I write things all the time.
I am a christian, yet I don't always include the word "God" in what I write. In fact quite rarely. YET it is part of who I am.
It is part of what the majority of the founders were. Even the writers of the Constitution..
Aw Shane!!!
(having one with supper in a few hours)......YES!!! I"M ADDICTED AS WELL !!
That and a coffee w/ double shot expresso.
There's a 10 step program. We will soon be drinking Power Aid (the horror)
FTL
I write things all the time.
I am a christian, yet I don't always include the word "God" in what I write. In fact quite rarely. YET it is part of who I am.
It is part of what the majority of the founders were. Even the writers of the Constitution..
Aardvark
Good for them. Nice they gave us a government that was religion neutral in between going to church. Hey, ever notice how the US Constitution never mentions God once, and only mentions religion in clauses prohibiting it from government? I wonder why a bunch of Oral Roberts-style Christians would have done that?
__________________
Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.
Welcome to the club Jim.
I am against organized religion as well.
The slavery issue was finally abolished by many events leading up to Lincoln, AND christian ideals. Imagine if those ideals were not present.
As far as interfering or offending a person due to symbols and icons, a person would have to be pretty weak to take offense to these things. Nothing else to do?
I certainly am not offended by jewish muslim or even satanic symbols (yet I must say the satanic is a bit disturbing) enough to have a fit over them, Let alone waste legal time and money fighting these things.
Life is too short for silliness .
Aardvark
Actually Aardvark, I don't think you are against organized religion because you defend it blindly. The symbol of the cross, for example, has been promulgated by the organized elements of Christianity, not by some decree by Jesus that it should come to represent his teachings or to be worshiped as some symbol of his sacrifice for us. To defend its erection in places where it can, and is, perceived as the state placing one faith ahead of another, favoring one faith over another by those of other faiths is to defend organized religion not Christ's teachings.
I have no issue with Christ's lessons that we should love our neighbor like we love ourselves, or that some derive from this concept the idea that all men are created equal. Or that you believe the words in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are lifted from Christ's intent. You can do all of that without advocating that our nation prefers Christianity. Or citing the evidence for that conclusion - that the majority of Americans are Christian - which is as though you are advocating mob rule.
Your last argument, that you find the state supporting the erection of Christian icons on state owned and maintained properties to be of such little consequence that non-Christians have to be thin-skinned to be offended by that action completely incongruous with your vehement defense of erecting those icons. You are very thin-skinned, and hardly Christian in your empathy for your non-Christian neighbor if you can't see how a tacit preference for Christian icons by the state is not oppressive and offensive to non-Christians. It would be much more Christian to acknowledge the erection of such icons can be offensive to non-Christians and to first, stop calling for them to be erected, and second, to remove them when someone voices a concern. That would be the Christian thing to do if following Christ's teachings was the priority instead of supporting organized religion's agenda.
So, when you defend the erection of icons of organized religion by the state it sure sounds to me like you are an advocate of organized religion, regardless of what you say.
My Creator was a primordial soup. Your moronic comments that ethics comes from a belief in your God shows evolution still has a long way to go. Tell me, how many times is God mentioned in the US Constitution?
It appears I've struck a nerve.
You claim to have been "created by soup". The First Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that nothing is now coming into existence or going out of existence. Matter and energy may be converted into one another, but there is no net increase in the combined total of what exists. Obviously there is matter. Obviously there is energy. Obviously The First Law of Thermodynamics is correct. If The First Law is correct, how did your soup come into being? Or is the magical soup not made of energy or matter? Do tell. Where is that soup today?
Also, if fortuitous molecular movement magically resulted in highly evolved animals, and our thoughts are merely the result of electro-chemical responses to stimuli, then there are no "ethics". In your world, "ethics" are electro-chemical nonsense, correct? Basically, you claim to be the descendent of inorganic matter. Inorganic matter has no 'rights'. Therefore, why should anyone adhere to a Bill of Rights? Logically speaking, why shouldn't it be thrown out? Ditto for any declarations of independence. Your distant ancestors, one of which being a rock, did they have property rights? If I put a rock in my pocket, am I enslaving some relative of yours? What ethics did the 'great unknown primordial soup' follow? Tell us the rules of conduct of the great soup.
As someone with great faith in soup, I'm sure you've thought through the answers to these questions. Give them to us.
You claim to have been "created by soup". The First Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that nothing is now coming into existence or going out of existence. Matter and energy may be converted into one another, but there is no net increase in the combined total of what exists. Obviously there is matter. Obviously there is energy. Obviously The First Law of Thermodynamics is correct. If The First Law is correct, how did your soup come into being? Or is the magical soup not made of energy or matter? Do tell. Where is that soup today?
Also, if fortuitous molecular movement magically resulted in highly evolved animals, and our thoughts are merely the result of electro-chemical responses to stimuli, then there are no "ethics". In your world, "ethics" are electro-chemical nonsense, correct? Basically, you claim to be the descendent of inorganic matter. Inorganic matter has no 'rights'. Therefore, why should anyone adhere to a Bill of Rights? Logically speaking, why shouldn't it be thrown out? Ditto for any declarations of independence. Your distant ancestors, one of which being a rock, did they have property rights? If I put a rock in my pocket, am I enslaving some relative of yours? What ethics did the 'great unknown primordial soup' follow? Tell us the rules of conduct of the great soup.
As someone with great faith in soup, I'm sure you've thought through the answers to these questions. Give them to us.
Actually Aardvark, I don't think you are against organized religion because you defend it blindly. Hmmm....Wrong.The symbol of the cross, for example, has been promulgated by the organized elements of Christianity, not by some decree by Jesus that it should come to represent his teachings or to be worshiped as some symbol of his sacrifice for us. To defend its erection in places where it can, and is, perceived as the state placing one faith ahead of another, favoring one faith over another by those of other faiths is to defend organized religion not Christ's teachings. Again......Wrong.
I have no issue with Christ's lessons that we should love our neighbor like we love ourselves, or that some derive from this concept the idea that all men are created equal. You are stating items that are expected of every human, Christian or not. Christ's lessons were not the main focus of his presence on Earth and not the basis of ChristianityOr that you believe the words in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are lifted from Christ's intent. NOt "lifted, but definitely inspired.You can do all of that without advocating that our nation prefers Christianity. Or citing the evidence for that conclusion - that the majority of Americans are Christian - which is as though you are advocating mob rule. Lighten up.
Your last argument, that you find the state supporting the erection of Christian icons on state owned and maintained properties to be of such little consequence that non-Christians have to be thin-skinned to be offended by that action completely incongruous with your vehement defense of erecting those icons. You are very thin-skinned, and hardly Christian in your empathy for your non-Christian neighbor if you can't see how a tacit preference for Christian icons by the state is not oppressive and offensive to non-Christians. It would be much more Christian to acknowledge the erection of such icons can be offensive to non-Christians and to first, stop calling for them to be erected, and second, to remove them when someone voices a concern. The few dictating the wishes of the many. That would be the Christian thing to do if following Christ's teachings was the priority instead of supporting organized religion's agenda. Off base.
So, when you defend the erection of icons of organized religion by the state it sure sounds to me like you are an advocate of organized religion, regardless of what you say.
Jim
Jim,
You are not looking at the issue from the same viewpoint as Aard and that clouds the reason. Organized religion is not the way you view it. Study the non-denominational Christian Churches and see how they vary from your perceptions. Aardvark and I are not that far from what you are thinking. You are not missing the point by much.
This topic has been tread over many times but I still don't mind explaining my feelings on the issue of "organized religion" because I will not let man control my thoughts. The same goes for inanimate things. When far left loons say that anything goes and I should just accept it, well, I'll hold up my hand and say, "forget it"! 1 Cor. 6:12 "Everything is permissible for me - but I will not be mastered by anything"! It takes a man of integrity to hold up to those words.
My Creator was a primordial soup. Your moronic comments that ethics comes from a belief in your God shows evolution still has a long way to go. Tell me, how many times is God mentioned in the US Constitution?
Just had to stick this in here for a little comic relief.
Game show looks to convert atheists
By Daren Butler
ISTANBUL (Reuters) – What happens when you put a Muslim imam, a Christian priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk in a room with 10 atheists?
Turkish television station Kanal T hopes the answer is a ratings success as it prepares to launch a gameshow where spiritual guides from the four faiths will seek to convert a group of non-believers.
The prize for converts will be a pilgrimage to a holy site of their chosen religion -- Mecca for Muslims, the Vatican for Christians, Jerusalem for Jews and Tibet for Buddhists.
But religious authorities in Muslim but secular Turkey are not amused by the twist on the popular reality game show format and the Religious Affairs Directorate is refusing to provide an imam for the show.
"Doing something like this for the sake of ratings is disrespectful to all religions. Religion should not be a subject for entertainment programs," High Board of Religious Affairs Chairman Hamza Aktan told state news agency Anatolian after news of the planned program emerged.
The makers of "Penitents Compete" are unrepentant and reject claims that the show, scheduled to begin broadcasting in September, will cheapen religion.
"We are giving the biggest prize in the world, the gift of belief in God," Kanal T chief executive Seyhan Soylu told Reuters.
"We don't approve of anyone being an atheist. God is great and it doesn't matter which religion you believe in. The important thing is to believe," Soylu said.
The project focuses attention on the issue of religious identity in European Union-candidate Turkey, where rights groups have raised concerns over freedom of religion for non-Muslim minorities.
Detractors of the ruling AK Party government, which is rooted in political Islam but officially secular, accuse it of having a hidden Islamist agenda, a charge it denies.
Some 200 people have so far applied to take part in the show and the 10 contestants will be chosen next month.
A team of theologians will ensure that the atheists are truly non-believers and are not just seeking fame or a free holiday.
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