Please don't call me 'ma'am'! - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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That's what I've been tellin' the boys. See link above (#46).
You are becoming flexible to a fault in your old age.

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post #52 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 09:09 AM
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The connotation of "sir" is not equivalent to the connotation of "ma'am." The use of "ma'am" when addressing a Senator of the United States is explicitly and intentionally disrespectful. Just as addressing a female general in an official function as "ma'am" would be considered disrespectful. The issue is speaks to the lack of respect for women by the General, and his lack of decent upbringing in a world where women are able to be peers of powerful men. It says about the same about the rest of you guys who found her response so irritating you had to start a fucking thread to berate her for it.

Jim
For someone who claims his father was in the military, you didn't pick up very much did you.
Jimmy you are flat out wrong, and your comment is just plain stupid....

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post #53 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 09:14 AM
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If you watch the exchange it's evident who is being disrespectful and who is not. The general was not out of line IMO. Boxer was just being who/what she is.
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post #54 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Complete BS. Or more likely, perfect ignorance. Look up military courtesy.

Any subordinate speaking to a female superior officer addresses her by her rank and also with the honorific, "ma'am." It is disrespectful and a violation of law to address her in any other manner when on official business.
I have to plead ignorance. I looked up "military courtesy" and found the use of the term "ma'am" is, by the rules, set on a par with the term "sir" and that one refers to one's superior officer as "sir" or "ma'am," presumably as it would apply to that officer's genitalia, and not by rank.

While I acknowledge the use of the term is per the military courtesy protocol, and that I was previously ignorant of that, the term in no way is an equivalent term, and technically has no place in military protocol. The term "sir" is derived from the French term for "lord" and was used to refer to the sovereign male of the land, an acknowledgment of that male's role as leader and the one in power. It retains that acknowledgment of the higher authority of one's superior today.

The term "ma'am" has no such etymology. It is derived from "madame" which has several connotations, not all of which are complimentary and literally means "my lady." Nothing deferential about that, no acknowledgment of any higher authority or power. In fact, it is much more a social title made up to accentuate the lesser role of women in a world dominated by men, while also signifying the male appreciation of the female's acceptance of her station, next to while also slightly behind the male. In other words it is a bullshit title. Well, all titles tend to be bullshit, this is one that is particularly full of bullshit.

So, military protocol or not, the Senator has the right to be addressed as Senator if that is what she prefers. Military courtesy also called for referring to blacks in ways that are no longer part of their protocol - and given the fact that there are now women of high rank in the military, and in elected offices in the federal government, it seems appropriate to drop the "ma'am" bullshit when there is another, specific title they have earned. Like a Supreme Court Justice - no longer referred to as Madame Justice or Mr. Justice, they are now just plain Justice. Because the "ma'am" title doesn't cut it.

Jim
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post #55 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 09:10 PM
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So the guy was in no way being insulting, she acted like a bitch, pass the beer nuts.
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post #56 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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I have to plead ignorance. ...

Jim
Go ahead and plead ignorance. No one here will argue w/ you...

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post #57 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 09:24 PM
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To me context trumps all the arguments and history debates in this one. Does anyone think the General was being disrespectful? Doesn't sound like it. Do most here think Boxer came on a little strong? Sounds like it.

If Boxer has as much stroke as she herself implies, she shouldn't have to lay it on so thick. It's okay if she wants to act like a "man." But, couldn't she act like a decent man? If a male Senator had pulled the same stunt I would have thought him a bit insecure.

Rule of thumb; if you have to remind someone how important you are, you are not as important as you think. Just my opinion.
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post #58 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 06:16 AM
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There was a time in the service when women were referred to as Sir, they didn’t like it…..

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

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Paul Harvey 8/31/94


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Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #59 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 07:09 AM
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If she wishes to be addressed by a title she earned, then I would call her a pretentious cunt.
Did I not nail this down in the 3rd post?

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post #60 of 69 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 09:43 AM
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I cannot believe this trivial bullshit has gone on for six pages.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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