Good Question. Why won't the media engage? - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:20 PM
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How hilarious you fascists now complain of a biased press when for most of the Bush years you self-same outraged whiners tried to equate criticizism of Bush with treason. What a joke you guys are on yourselves.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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How hilarious you fascists now complain of a biased press when for most of the Bush years you self-same outraged whiners tried to equate criticizism of Bush with treason. What a joke you guys are on yourselves.
What a wonderfully simplistic and incorrect characterization. Now why don't you run along there and try not to hook the chin-strap of your helmet on the door knob again, ok?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:26 PM
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Which Newt do we get to debate, the one from the 1990s or the one that is trying to reinvent himself?

Newt has some very good ideas. He also has some very unsustainable ideas. That is the crux of the problem with Newt. I have to wonder how the path of Contract with America, after it played out would stand in a debate. He hung his hat on it. It had some good parts but contributed much to what we have now economically.

Normally I would think that in any primary battle, the moral issues of his past will be a problem. But then I think back to both Bush and McCain. Both very flawed.
Doesn't matter which one you see opposite you. You are assuming that he would actually be chosen as the GOP presidential choice. The man has a past that will be tough if not impossible to surmount. Put all that aside in your narrow mind and ask yourself how he would fare in a debate with anyone left of center. You cannot list one person that could hold his own.

He may not carry your ideals and he may have a sordid past, however, you cannot deny his ability to get the facts correct in an interview or a debate. When you say "reinvent" as a slur, I disagree. The reinvention that you see is a slick politician that is being very careful about what he says and does. He may indeed be starting a campaign rally a little soon, but I doubt it would lead to a nomination.

I also find it a little strange that you seem to lump Bush and McCain into the "moral issue" bucket. The personal morals of both were very high.
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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
How hilarious you fascists now complain of a biased press when for most of the Bush years you self-same outraged whiners tried to equate criticizism of Bush with treason. What a joke you guys are on yourselves.
Check your history pal, Fascism comes from the left, not from the right...

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:42 PM
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Check your history pal, Fascism comes from the left, not from the right...
That's a tough nut to swallow for guys that far out on the lunatic fringe. Here's a reminder of just how correct you are...
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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:43 PM
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Well I am glad you discussed it with 30 PHD students. Is that supposed to be impressive?

It is comments like that give people a bad taste about intellectuals. You won't even understand what I mean by that probably.

As to your point about the bolded section...

If that were the case the media would have been far more sympathetic to Clinton. This is why I really think this study hit some nerves.

It clearly shows the absolute infatuation with Obama on behalf of the press.

Why else are there double standards? You know like leave his kids out of the politics (which they did) but they couldn't leave the Palin kids out of the attacks!

How else do you explain the complete lack of accountability on the part of the media when it comes to pointing out Obama's failures to keep his campaign promises?

This is an ideologically driven discussion. Just not the politically motivated one that you want to make it out to be.
You were the one that asked if I had read it. I simply gave you a COMPLETE ANSWER to that question. Sorry that it bothers you that my class discussed this prior to our BWOT discussion. It has nothing to do with intellectuals, it has to do with specialists in a field. At some point you might understand the difference.

As for the difference between NOW and Clinton, it is too great to place in the simple metrics that the PEW study provides. As an example, in 1993, there was no Internet, blogging, minimal cable news, minimal news sourcing and much more of our news was via print which is edited different than instant cable.

Also, we have a difference in the way the three Presidents use the media. If we use Clinton as a control X for the amount of media exposure, times he provided press conferences and times he gave televised appearances in the first 100 days and compare that to Bush who would be 1/3X and Obama who is 3X. Those factors also are integral to the coverage. The flood of information that we have coming from this White House provides a different perspective.

As for accountability for Obama's campaign promises, there are two things. Using the Sunshine issue as one example, the media did cover it and apparently that is now addressed. Regarding many of the other promises, they are more long term, in process items that are not at their end game so, only those in "opposition" jump in and declare them failures before they have had time to run their course. Most of what is called mainstream media don't do that. Their analysts might report that things are taking longer than hoped but not that they are failures as we don't know, at this point what the results are.

As for the KIDS issue, the only time the kids were brought into the media discussion was when the candidate had brought them in first. Even after tabloids tried first, mainstream did not break it until Palin brought stuff up. Now, comics did, blogs did, forums did, tabloids did but media did not give it coverage until the campaign brought the family into the game.

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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:52 PM
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Unfortunately McB there isn't anything you say anymore that can be taken seriously. If this were a Bush administration you would be up in arms about how we shouldn't be worried about what Clinton has don, because everything is now being done by Bush and his minions. The facts are that this is something YOU have already done in the past.

I don’t care about what Bush has done, it’s no longer his administration, it’s OweBama’s, and he will take the heat, like it or not.
I have no problem with Obama taking the heat for his political decisions. That is correct.

As you keep avoiding, it is the nits from the right that humor me.

And I only bring up Bush NOW as it relates to current policy. You will note that, unless brought up by someone on the right for discussion, I don't blame Bush for what is going on NOW unless it is a policy that is being addressed NOW that is in flux. That is legit. You just don't like the contrast.

Regarding Clinton, the things that the right brought up, for eight years were things like a blowjob and other nits. Seldom policy continuance issues that actually mattered. And I don't recall ever saying "gee guys you still blaming Clilnton?" except for the blowjob. Now I do recall questioning why the right still blames Carter, some 30 years and three Republican presidents later but hey, you guys are going to whine how you want to.

So, NO, they aren't the same, no matter how you want to frame it. Your boy put the Country is a very bad position that is having to be cleaned up. It's Obama's mess now and he will clean it up. You don't like how it is being done. That's tough. Maybe you should have put a candidate in that didn't get blown away in the election.

Wait, sorry he was the best you had. Oops.

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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 01:59 PM
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Doesn't matter which one you see opposite you. You are assuming that he would actually be chosen as the GOP presidential choice. The man has a past that will be tough if not impossible to surmount. Put all that aside in your narrow mind and ask yourself how he would fare in a debate with anyone left of center. You cannot list one person that could hold his own.

He may not carry your ideals and he may have a sordid past, however, you cannot deny his ability to get the facts correct in an interview or a debate. When you say "reinvent" as a slur, I disagree. The reinvention that you see is a slick politician that is being very careful about what he says and does. He may indeed be starting a campaign rally a little soon, but I doubt it would lead to a nomination.

I also find it a little strange that you seem to lump Bush and McCain into the "moral issue" bucket. The personal morals of both were very high.
Let's see, cocaine, alcohol addict, frat boy who played fast and loose with his buds like Kenny Lay and McCain who, when his wife who stayed by him while he was in Hanoi dumped her for a rich model after she was a cripple. And we won't even go into the flipflopflipflopflipflops.

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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 03:32 PM
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Let's see, cocaine, alcohol addict, frat boy who played fast and loose with his buds like Kenny Lay and McCain who, when his wife who stayed by him while he was in Hanoi dumped her for a rich model after she was a cripple. And we won't even go into the flipflopflipflopflipflops.
So, you still consider GW a coke and booze addict? How would you judge him now?
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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-15-2009, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Let's see, cocaine, alcohol addict, frat boy who played fast and loose with his buds like Kenny Lay and McCain who, when his wife who stayed by him while he was in Hanoi dumped her for a rich model after she was a cripple. And we won't even go into the flipflopflipflopflipflops.
Wait! Wait! Wait!...

Back the bus up and open the door so we can toss "Dreamy" and his misspent, cocaine using youth under it as well.

As for the flip flops, the Obama for President website got scrubbed so many times that after a while you could see your computer's desktop through it, it was worn so thin.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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