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post #71 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 08:32 AM
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Don't need to read up on neutron bombs Jimmy; I received more than just cursory training on special weapons. You don’t use them as you suggest unless you’re planning on a full blown nuclear war. Are you planning on a nuclear war Jimmy, because even a tiny weapon, one like we used in the Genie rocket would start one, you are aware of that, aren’t you Jimmy?

From what you have written here, it sounds like you’re the one “run by secretions from your testes instead of logical thought processes in your brain.”. It would appear to me that anyone suggesting that we use a nuke to end the rein of some wacko mini-dictator has lost his sense of direction. You have to know that Russia and China would look at that as about as unfriendly as spitting in someone else’s beer.

Apparently, not every male is equipped with a sufficient brain to understand that a testosterone squirt is not always the best stimulant for long term strategic thinking.” You tend to be proving that with almost every word you write here Jimmy.

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post #72 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 10:49 AM
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Don't need to read up on neutron bombs Jimmy; I received more than just cursory training on special weapons. You don’t use them as you suggest unless you’re planning on a full blown nuclear war. Are you planning on a nuclear war Jimmy, because even a tiny weapon, one like we used in the Genie rocket would start one, you are aware of that, aren’t you Jimmy?

From what you have written here, it sounds like you’re the one “run by secretions from your testes instead of logical thought processes in your brain.”. It would appear to me that anyone suggesting that we use a nuke to end the rein of some wacko mini-dictator has lost his sense of direction. You have to know that Russia and China would look at that as about as unfriendly as spitting in someone else’s beer.

Apparently, not every male is equipped with a sufficient brain to understand that a testosterone squirt is not always the best stimulant for long term strategic thinking.” You tend to be proving that with almost every word you write here Jimmy.
Selective reading and then half assed responses seem to be your forte' as you seem to have missed this preamble to my criteria for using nukes:

"I would not do anything of significance, militarily, until I was prepared to vaporize the guy, his family and a lot of other North Koreans in his immediate vicinity, in a neutron bomb flash. Or, just a relentless stream of conventional sources of surface-of-the-sun-like local temperatures."

I do not advocate use of the military except to defend America against genuine threats. And, while I concede there are many who find my "willingness" to use nukes alarming under these circumstances, they generally don't pay close enough attention to the threat assessment requirements before using the military, at all. The threat has to be real, and we have to be in a situation where we will do whatever it takes to win, because if we have learned nothing from Vietnam or Iraq, we should now know the people we are going to fight, will.

If those conditions don't exist, you use something else from your toolbag. Like diplomacy, or economic sanctions or something new and invented for the specific issue confronting us - like alliances with other nations nearby. When all else fails and the threat to America's continued existence is real, you use force, with judgment and constraint, but with the primary goal to preserve our nation at the expense of the aggressor's nation. In my book that includes using our most effective weapons, delivered putting the fewest American soldiers in harm's way.

But I realize there are guys like you who would find slowly draining our military in long, quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq their first choice. For what reason I have no idea - maybe you find Americans being killed by others some kind of romantic way for young men to die. But you guys pipe up all the time. "Break the keel of a freighter" or "blockade them and starve them out." I was listening, but no explanation of how that would achieve any goal in particular was ever offered. Just a cowboy movie script solution. Lil' Kim has nukes. He may very well use them. Provoking him will likely get him moving down that path sooner rather than later. Don't offer dumb, single but irrevocable, single step suggestions when the problem will quickly turn into something more dangerous and more complex.

I can tell you prefer Bush's black and white presentations from cowboy movie scripts - we get the white hats which makes us the good guys. That's all you need to know because in Hollywood the good guys always win, at least when John Wayne is in the movie. This movie has Chuckie in the starring role. It was not written by anyone who wrote John Wayne's roles and movies. More like the "No Country for Old Men" script writer running this one.

Like I said, grow a brain, and learn to use it.

Jim
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post #73 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 11:44 AM
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Selective reading and then half assed responses seem to be your forte' as you seem to have missed this preamble to my criteria for using nukes:

"I would not do anything of significance, militarily, until I was prepared to vaporize the guy, his family and a lot of other North Koreans in his immediate vicinity, in a neutron bomb flash. Or, just a relentless stream of conventional sources of surface-of-the-sun-like local temperatures."
So Jimmy, correct me if I misunderstand what you have stated in the above: Don't do anything until he pisses you off enough, and then Nuke him?
Let the UN do the talking (fine and dandy) and when he doesn't respond to nice talk drop the big one on his butt?
How do you think his friends the Chinese and Russians would react to that?


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I do not advocate use of the military except to defend America against genuine threats. And, while I concede there are many who find my "willingness" to use nukes alarming under these circumstances, they generally don't pay close enough attention to the threat assessment requirements before using the military, at all. The threat has to be real, and we have to be in a situation where we will do whatever it takes to win, because if we have learned nothing from Vietnam or Iraq, we should now know the people we are going to fight, will.

If those conditions don't exist, you use something else from your toolbag. Like diplomacy, or economic sanctions or something new and invented for the specific issue confronting us - like alliances with other nations nearby. When all else fails and the threat to America's continued existence is real, you use force, with judgment and constraint, but with the primary goal to preserve our nation at the expense of the aggressor's nation. In my book that includes using our most effective weapons, delivered putting the fewest American soldiers in harm's way.
So what I have said in the past, hit them as hard as you can, with everything you have now works for you….. except you want to go one better.
I might add that “Lil” Kim has missiles that can reach Alaska now, are you saying that that isn’t a threat to us? The State may be run by a Republican, but it’s still a State as I recall…


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But I realize there are guys like you who would find slowly draining our military in long, quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq their first choice. For what reason I have no idea - maybe you find Americans being killed by others some kind of romantic way for young men to die. But you guys pipe up all the time. "Break the keel of a freighter" or "blockade them and starve them out." I was listening, but no explanation of how that would achieve any goal in particular was ever offered. Just a cowboy movie script solution. Lil' Kim has nukes. He may very well use them. Provoking him will likely get him moving down that path sooner rather than later. Don't offer dumb, single but irrevocable, single step suggestions when the problem will quickly turn into something more dangerous and more complex.
Correction there Jimmy, it was guys like YOU that started Vietnam.
LBJ (I believe he was a liberal wasn't he?) is the mental midget that got us full bore into the war in Vietnam, and the liberal press, plus the drug infused extremists on the left, pulled us out before we could finish the job properly. Seems I can remember some of that better than you can.



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I can tell you prefer Bush's black and white presentations from cowboy movie scripts - we get the white hats which makes us the good guys. That's all you need to know because in Hollywood the good guys always win, at least when John Wayne is in the movie. This movie has Chuckie in the starring role. It was not written by anyone who wrote John Wayne's roles and movies. More like the "No Country for Old Men" script writer running this one.
Another slight correction Jimmy, nobody wins when you use nuclear weapons. The fallout alone will kill off the better part of Japan if we nuke Pyongyang as you suggest. I don’t know about you, but I like my SONY TV. In this case you're on the wrong side of the ledger buddy.

"Like I said, grow a brain, and learn to use it." Something you might want to consider doing yourself my mindless little buffoon.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #74 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 02:01 PM
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So Jimmy, correct me if I misunderstand what you have stated in the above: Don't do anything until he pisses you off enough, and then Nuke him?
Let the UN do the talking (fine and dandy) and when he doesn't respond to nice talk drop the big one on his butt?
How do you think his friends the Chinese and Russians would react to that?
It is difficult to carry on a discussion with someone who is functionally illiterate. Read what I wrote and show me where what I said is what you say I said.


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So what I have said in the past, hit them as hard as you can, with everything you have now works for you….. except you want to go one better.
I might add that “Lil” Kim has missiles that can reach Alaska now, are you saying that that isn’t a threat to us? The State may be run by a Republican, but it’s still a State as I recall…
I have always advocated the concept of using all the advantages, skills, and capabilities we can muster when we engage in a military conflict. I am just not as willing as you are to get involved in military conflicts - my criteria are actual, verified, and sustained threats to the continuation of the way of life enabled by our Constitution. Unfortunately, I don't see 9-11-2001 or an attack on some island in the Aleutian Chain as justification for a whole hog response. You may. I don't. The threat has to be great and grave enough for there to be no other way out. And then, yes, all hell breaks loose.

But before that, in the case of Lil' Kim, we would make allies of the neighbors and understand ahead of time, with them, what kind of responses would be appropriate at what stages of the developing crisis. Nothing military until all hell has to break loose because there is no other choice, and that is apparent to all interested observers, not just those who get private, classified, reports from politically motivated sources of "intel."


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Correction there Jimmy, it was guys like YOU that started Vietnam.
LBJ (I believe he was a liberal wasn't he?) is the mental midget that got us full bore into the war in Vietnam, and the liberal press, plus the drug infused extremists on the left, pulled us out before we could finish the job properly. Seems I can remember some of that better than you can.
No, I was not of voting age when Vietnam started, and it started way earlier than that. But regardless, you elected once again to get puffed up with some counter "point" that has no association with anything I wrote.

The lessons learned from Vietnam I was speaking of were the ones you sit around afterwards and document. One very appropriate one might be "how did we get involved in the first place?" But that was not entirely my point. My point included noticing that when you fight people on their homeland for control of same, they fight a lot harder than our team, who is not fighting to save our homeland when it is clear our homeland is not directly threatened. There are myriad of other side "axioms" to be learned along those lines. All of which should make it clear to us, we should only get militarily involved when there is no other option, and then, we should be fighting to preserve our homeland, our way of life, and do whatever it takes.


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Another slight correction Jimmy, nobody wins when you use nuclear weapons. The fallout alone will kill off the better part of Japan if we nuke Pyongyang as you suggest. I don’t know about you, but I like my SONY TV. In this case you're on the wrong side of the ledger buddy.
Again, if we have to nuke Lil' Kim there will be some bad shit already happening that justifies it - consequently it is entirely feasible Japan and South Korea, as well as part of China will have already suffered some horrors along with Alaska. There is nothing we can do in the area that is unilateral - which was my point earlier. All the proposals from the right were unilateral and provocative in nature. There was nothing proposed with any context that would show how it would end the stand off or take Lil' Kim out of the picture - which in the end is the most likely answer. Just take the little shithead out, along with his family, with the consent of our allies in this situation.

Quote:
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"Like I said, grow a brain, and learn to use it." Something you might want to consider doing yourself my mindless little buffoon.
There is nothing about me that is yours - that is a delusion you suffer, alone. Get some help to get over that, get a brain, and learn to use it.

Jim
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post #75 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 02:11 PM
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Unfortunately, I don't see 9-11-2001 or an attack on some island in the Aleutian Chain as justification for a whole hog response. You may. I don't.
I think you said enough right there Jimmy.

WW II started for us with an attack on some island in the Pacific, but apparently that wouldn't have meant much to you either...

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
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post #76 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 02:29 PM
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Lil Kim is gettin' pissy.

Exclusive: North Korea to Match U.N. Resolution With New Nuclear Test
U.S. intelligence officials are warning President Obama that North Korea intends to conduct another nuclear test in response to passage of a U.N. Security Council resolution this week condemning the communist country for its recent nuclear and ballistic missile tests, FOX News has learned.
By James Rosen
FOXNews.com
Thursday, June 11, 2009

powered by BaynoteU.S. intelligence officials have warned President Obama and other senior American officials that North Korea intends to respond to the passage of a U.N. Security Council resolution this week -- condemning the communist country for its recent nuclear and ballistic missile tests -- with another nuclear test, FOX News has learned.

What's more, Pyongyang's next nuclear detonation is but one of four planned actions the Central Intelligence Agency has learned, through sources inside North Korea, that the regime of Kim Jong-Il intends to take -- but not announce -- once the Security Council resolution is officially passed, likely on Friday.

The other three actions include the reprocessing of all of the North's spent plutonium fuel rods into weapons-grade plutonium; a major escalation in the North's uranium-enrichment program; and the launching of another Taepodong-2 intercontinental ballistic missile from the Yunsong military complex on the west coast of North Korea. The North last launched a Taepodong-2 on April 5; it conducted its second nuclear test in the last three years on Memorial Day.

The intelligence community only learned of North Korea's plans this week, prompting CIA to alert senior officials. Asked who would be briefed on this kind of data, a source told FOX News: "The top people: POTUS, DNI." "POTUS" is acronym for the president of the United States; "DNI" refers to the director of the Office of National Intelligence.

FOX News is withholding some details about the sources and methods by which American intelligence agencies learned of the North's plans so as to avoid compromising sensitive overseas operations in a country -- North Korea -- U.S. spymasters regard as one of the world's most difficult to penetrate.

A White House official, contacted by FOX News, declined to comment, saying only that the U.S. government never speaks publicly about intelligence matters.

As top Obama administration officials weigh this prized data and what actions they might take to counter North Korea's plans for a third nuclear test, American intelligence analysts have also encountered setback in their efforts to track developments in the reclusive Stalinist country.

Where U.S. officials had observed the arrival of the first-stage transporter for a Taepodong-2 at Yunsong by June 2, leading to predictions of an imminent launch by officials as high-ranking as Defense Secretary Robert Gates, sources now tell FOX News they see no significant activity consistent with an imminent launch.

"The TD-2 activity has been rather dormant," one source said.

As well, where American intelligence officials on June 9 observed components for the long-range Musudan missile leaving the Wapo-ri installation area, they have now "lost track of them," FOX News has learned.

"We spotted the TELs [Transporter-Erector-Launchers] and then we lost track of them," a source said. "NGA lost track."

NGA refers to the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, a unit the Defense Department that provides imagery and geospatial information for military and civilian purposes.

"It's disturbing," the source added.

As well, despite multiple tests, U.S. scientists have only reached inconclusive results in their efforts to use air samplings collected over the Korean Peninsula in the days after the Memorial Day detonation to confirm with 100 percent certainty that North Korea conducted a nuclear test, as is still widely believed
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post #77 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 02:37 PM
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Perfect. Let him. Let's see how many it takes to rouse the sleeping giant to his west.

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post #78 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 03:02 PM
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Perfect. Let him. Let's see how many it takes to rouse the sleeping giant to his west.
Serious question: What difference does it make?

If he sets off a dozen underground tests, and there is no fallout to injure others, who cares? One surface test with fallout in Japan, Mexico, Hawaii, or the mainland and you may have reason to take action, but until then….
We peppered a few Japanese fishermen with our testing in the Pacific, but at least we had an excuse (maybe a bad one, but still an excuse) we didn’t know how bad fall out could be, and the H- bomb went off 2-1/2 times more powerful than anticipated, an oopsie moment…

The missile is a different story, we can use that as target practice for our anti-missile missile. They would have a problem tracking that, although the Russians could and might say something. I tend to believe that even the Chinese are getting a little wary of that tin pot dictator..

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
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post #79 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 03:07 PM
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Serious question: What difference does it make?

If he sets off a dozen underground tests, and there is no fallout to injure others, who cares?
China will care. I promise.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #80 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 03:09 PM
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China will care. I promise.
I hope so, they can do something without a full scale war, I doubt that we can.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
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