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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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FCC Broadband Plan

Now for a turn from the political...

This is a petition to the FCC to urge them to craft a plan that keeps the Web free and open. See here for Net Neutrality.

They are lobbying for regulations that will inhibit new startups. All this so they can push up prices for service by preventing competition.

In essence, ISP Company "Xcast" gets big and then decides to raise their prices across the board and decrease bandwidth. Well that ticks a lot of people off. So entrepreneur "YGuy" sets up a company that offers higher bandwidth at a lower price.

Thing is, if the anti-Net Neutrality companies get their way it would be like the phone company shenanigans in the 60's and 70's where there was no other choice, you had to go with Ma Bell.

Here are a few sites for more info:

StopBigMedia.com
Internet for Everyone | Help define the future of the Internet in America.
Home | Save the Internet

Here is the petition.

Put a People-Powered Internet First | Free Press

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 11:07 PM
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Where are the links for the anti neutrality companies' petitions?
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 11:17 PM
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So, how did that phone company deregulation thing go? I somehow remember back in the dark ages that everything functioned without a multitude of plans, dancing, rate changes, increases and charges for everything under the sun.

Phones were free, service was cheap and it worked each and every time.

As for net neutrality, you have to ask yourself a couple of questions about YGuy and his new company. Is he going to lay new lines to compete with Xcast or is he going to do what the gas and phone companies are doing and simply lease lines into your house, adding another middle man into the mix?

Net neutrality, which is "a network is one that is free of restrictions on content, sites, or platforms, on the kinds of equipment that may be attached, and on the modes of communication allowed, as well as one where communication is not unreasonably degraded by other communication streams." is somewhat different that the argument that you propose regarding vendor X and Y which are pipeline issues, not content issues.

Those two issues have to be fully separated before a rational argument can be formed.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
So, how did that phone company deregulation thing go? I somehow remember back in the dark ages that everything functioned without a multitude of plans, dancing, rate changes, increases and charges for everything under the sun.

Phones were free, service was cheap and it worked each and every time.

As for net neutrality, you have to ask yourself a couple of questions about YGuy and his new company. Is he going to lay new lines to compete with Xcast or is he going to do what the gas and phone companies are doing and simply lease lines into your house, adding another middle man into the mix?

Net neutrality, which is "a network is one that is free of restrictions on content, sites, or platforms, on the kinds of equipment that may be attached, and on the modes of communication allowed, as well as one where communication is not unreasonably degraded by other communication streams." is somewhat different that the argument that you propose regarding vendor X and Y which are pipeline issues, not content issues.

Those two issues have to be fully separated before a rational argument can be formed.
I disagree. The two are inexorably linked. The companies will be getting their foot in the door with content because they have been laying line.

Here is an example.

Verizon has been very aggressive with their FIOS network and laying FO cable in the Atlanta area. Comacst has been the predominant player for internet Broadband with AT&T being the only commensurate competitor with DSL.

All of a sudden Comcast has been laying new FO cable and making lots of PR noise about the new DOCSIS 3.0 system. In addition, they have been upgrading the the bandwidth free of charge. I used to get 6MB down 512k up. I have been getting regular speeds of 23MB down and 6MB up.

See Competition is good.

Now comcast has used the argument that they lay so much infrastructure that they should be able to decide what gets transported on it. The problem is that runs contrary to our first amendment rights.

For some background just on Comcast go to this google search:

Google: Comcast Peer To Peer Block

I see the two as connected because the companies use one to justify the other quite frequently.

PS the phone thing? Prices have dropped precipitously as a result of the technology advances that were avidly sought as a result of the breakup of the monopoly.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a good article in Slate. From back in 2007.

Describes the pitfalls very well as well as the Upsides. Overall, "Fair and Balanced"

Ma Bell is back. Should you be afraid? - By Tim Wu - Slate Magazine

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
I disagree. The two are inexorably linked. The companies will be getting their foot in the door with content because they have been laying line.

Now comcast has used the argument that they lay so much infrastructure that they should be able to decide what gets transported on it. The problem is that runs contrary to our first amendment rights.
Explain the "free market economy", "rights of businesses to do what they want" and your "first amendment rights" to inexpensive cable content.

The peer to peer that they are blocking has to do with folks setting up servers to share music and porn over a private company's infrastructure. I pay an access premium now because I use two servers as business servers that are accessed by folks on our team and my upload/download is higher than that of normal content users.

As folks start moving to a "rent a movie via download" there will become a requirement to charge for load use. That would be a normal business model. Why, suddenly are you arguing against the needs of a business to make fair money off of their substantial investment? Or do you think the price model should be singular for the person that downloads 50GB of video monthly and the grandmother that checks her email once a day?



Quote:
PS the phone thing? Prices have dropped precipitously as a result of the technology advances that were avidly sought as a result of the breakup of the monopoly.
So, in 1977 you were paying $9.50 a month for local land line service and free service TO THE PHONE should there be a problem. Now that same service is $50 PLUS all service calls inside the house. Inflation has not been 500%.

McBear,
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-04-2009, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Explain the "free market economy", "rights of businesses to do what they want" and your "first amendment rights" to inexpensive cable content.

The peer to peer that they are blocking has to do with folks setting up servers to share music and porn over a private company's infrastructure. I pay an access premium now because I use two servers as business servers that are accessed by folks on our team and my upload/download is higher than that of normal content users.

As folks start moving to a "rent a movie via download" there will become a requirement to charge for load use. That would be a normal business model. Why, suddenly are you arguing against the needs of a business to make fair money off of their substantial investment? Or do you think the price model should be singular for the person that downloads 50GB of video monthly and the grandmother that checks her email once a day?



So, in 1977 you were paying $9.50 a month for local land line service and free service TO THE PHONE should there be a problem. Now that same service is $50 PLUS all service calls inside the house. Inflation has not been 500%.
This is an area that gets muddy real quick. I believe that a company that makes its money based on the conveyance of information takes on the responsibility to not curb the individual's right to free speech.

I am also saying that they should not be given a protected status like Ma Bell was as this results in demonstrable harm to the public. Cell phones are a good example. Ma Bell kept that technology bottled up as long as they could.

As for your question about the cost of service please see this very good article on the Ma Bell Breakup:

AT&T Divestiture - What Killed Ma Bell? by Melvin D. Barger

In particular this passage explains what you ask:

Quote:
But Ma Bell could adopt such a pricing policy because of the telephone company's monopoly position, which the government protected. Company officials knew that certain parts of its markets were tempting targets for potential competitors. But both Bell policy and public policy, backed by the police power of government, kept raiders out of these markets. More than almost anything, this policy showed how responsive the Bell System was to political moods and trends. The practice of holding down residential rates and overcharging long distance users was really a subtle form of the "soak the rich" policies that had come to dominate government thinking in the 1930s. It is also true that residential users, as a group, command more votes in state and federal elections than do long distance and business users. What the rate policy really meant is that long distance and business users were being taxed, with Ma Bell as the collector, to subsidize residential service. This gap became very large over time. An Ohio Bell official said early in 1983, "We're collecting, on the average, about $12 a month for basic local service from each residence customer. The gap between this $12 price and the $25 cost is currently recovered from other services priced considerably higher than their costs." 9

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-04-2009, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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Talk about hiding. What no response to this?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-04-2009, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
So, in 1977 you were paying $9.50 a month for local land line service and free service TO THE PHONE should there be a problem. Now that same service is $50 PLUS all service calls inside the house. Inflation has not been 500%.

huh? when i set mabell free last year my bill wasn't even double your '77 price. @$50 you're getting ripped off in a major way.



in political asylum
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