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post #321 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:30 AM
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post #322 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Please show us if you would, how you arrived at this conclusion.

No wonder your post read the way they do.

I guess we can't argue with your "Spectral Evidence" as it were now can we?
For the purpose of sustaining your invalid position you have narrowed down the words you will agree make Cheney a liar on this issue to something that he never said because he never needed to say it. Instead he orchestrated a campaign of misinformation and manipulation of the CIA - he even had Rummy hire his own version of the "plumbers" to "find" evidence he wanted to support the decision to invade Iraq when the CIA was uncooperative.

So, Cheney never said the words you find key to proving to you he lied about this issue. So what? Who really gives a fuck about TNTRower's criteria for determining Cheney is a liar? The evidence is clearly there - FTL showed you a number of instances where he and Bush implied that Saddam was in cahoots with A-Q before 9-11-2001 happened, was training their operatives in all kinds of chemical and nuclear and biological warfare methods, and all of that proved to be entirely bullshit. In each case he had the opportunity to be straight with the American people and make it clear there was no such evidence. He didn't. He went along with the scam. That is being an accomplice at the very least, and once the secrecy is torn down in all likelihood it will be shown that Cheney was behind the curtain, making all this deceptive shit happen - so he won't just be the accomplice. The story of the WMDs Saddam had - more bullshit. All in all there was zero evidence Saddam alone every posed any threat to the US and only by playing up the connections to A-Q and other terrorists groups who might bring Saddam's WMD to the US and try to kill thousands of Americans and citizens of other countries could Cheney and Rummy and Bush get the support they needed to invade Iraq. This is all about invading Iraq without any solid evidence, rationale, or even a plan. And Cheney did whatever he thought he needed to, including lying to Senators, Congressmen, the press and the American people to get that support.

You feel like Cheney is being mistreated or something. Who cares what you think? Cheney will either be exonerated or convicted of lying and arm twisting the CIA into political answers to support political agendas as things appear to be going now. Good. Then we will find out and get to see what exactly was behind the disaster that was the decision to invade Iraq.

Jim
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post #323 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 05:26 PM
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Don't forget Jim, this is the same dancing fool who lie about his own plagiarizing, and chose to lie rather than admit that he was wrong about his hero Cheney's lie regarding Chinese offshore oil rigs in the Caribbean.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower
I just have a very low threshold for dishonesty.
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post #324 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 06:52 PM
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It would be good at this point to review the original post:

Quote:
June 1, 2009: On whether Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaeda carry out the 2001 terrorist attacks, Cheney said, “I do not believe, and I have never seen any evidence, that he was involved in 9/11.”
Saddam’s supposed involvement in 9/11 was one of the reasons justifying the invasion of Iraq. Cheney confirms that was not the case – it is a fact, therefore, beyond debate, that the war in Iraq is illegal.

That’s all that’s important here, that’s all that matters.

The only questing remaining is whether or not Cheney will be prosecuted – among others - for starting an illegal, unjustified war.
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post #325 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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^ Yes. And if a quote is required to debunk the theme of this thread, it must be a quote in which Cheney admits that same truth prior to June 1, preferably prior to March 20, 2003.

Don't bother, no such quote exists.

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post #326 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 10:40 PM
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Nice try guys!

I love how when you can't support your assertions you guys on left here automatically go for the ad hominem attack. Very predictable.

Of course nobody can counter your assertions that are based on the "Well everybody knew what they meant when they didn't say it" logic.

And that is what you are saying.

But it's been nice trying to have a discussion about it all. Too bad your side amounted to throwing mischaracterisations, and obfuscations up on the wall instead of actual evidence to support your position.

Gotta love the "Everybody knew what they meant when they didn't say it." argument. It stops conversations cold most times...with its stupidity.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #327 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc1244 View Post
It would be good at this point to review the original post:



Saddam’s supposed involvement in 9/11 was one of the reasons justifying the invasion of Iraq. Cheney confirms that was not the case – it is a fact, therefore, beyond debate, that the war in Iraq is illegal.

That’s all that’s important here, that’s all that matters.

The only questing remaining is whether or not Cheney will be prosecuted – among others - for starting an illegal, unjustified war.
Actually you are incorrect on all your assertions. Please have a read over here, the actual resolution.

About the closest thing there is to a mention about Iraq and 9/11 is this:

Quote:
Whereas the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001,
underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition
of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist
organizations;
and this:

Quote:
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility
for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests,
including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are
known to be in Iraq;
But there is a whole lot more to that resolution so to say it is an illegal war is incorrect.

Besides, if it was so illegal why is Obama still prosecuting it?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #328 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Nice try guys!

I love how when you can't support your assertions you guys on left here automatically go for the ad hominem attack. Very predictable.

Of course nobody can counter your assertions that are based on the "Well everybody knew what they meant when they didn't say it" logic.

And that is what you are saying.

But it's been nice trying to have a discussion about it all. Too bad your side amounted to throwing mischaracterisations, and obfuscations up on the wall instead of actual evidence to support your position.

Gotta love the "Everybody knew what they meant when they didn't say it." argument. It stops conversations cold most times...with its stupidity.
You are doing it again.

Dancing around questions, failing to answer, ignoring posts that provide answers and going lalalalalalala when you hear an answer you don't like.

And, reading back on the past two days, there have not been Ad Hominem attacks, there have been accusations that you fail to pay attention to quotes and evidence that you say don't exist but oddly seem posted all over this thread.

You seem to want to be the only person to defend Cheney on this. Everyone else in the Republican Party has accepted that he lied and has just moved beyond it. Maybe you just got too much Kool Aid but go back to the beginning of the thread and try to read without the rose colored glasses. The answers that you avoid are there.

As for why Obama is still prosecuting the Iraq war, he has an obligation to pull out gracefully from the clusterfuck Bush and Cheney started. Anything less would not be honorable.

McBear,
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post #329 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:37 PM
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cheney 2004 denying the 9-11 commission's report on no link between saddam and 9-11

__________________________________________________ _____________

Later, for years, he claimed "we're not sure" if Hussein and 9/11 were linked. But when the 9/11 report came out and dismissed both links, he blasted both the press and the commission for not "having the facts"

__________________________________________________ _____________

Here's the letter W sent to Congress with the Iraq War resolution, that clearly ties Iraq with 9/11 in Section 2.

First, many of Bush and Cheney's statements were nuanced during this time - which only goes to show they knew they were lying us into a war. Their intent was to mislead the FOX viewers, etc...and it worked. Many STILL believe Saddam did 9/11 and that was the marketing plan. Indeed many soldiers signed up to fight in Iraq as a response to 9/11 so this deception actually got people killed.

It's rare that the Bush administration put it in writing what they were trying to sell. This letter is one of those times:

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
Sincerely,
GEORGE W. BUSH

__________________________________________________ ____________

more from Bush's speech on the aircraft carrier:

"including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."

"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al-Qaida, and cut off a source of terrorist funding."

again, the speech from the aircraft carrier:

"we have removed an ally of al-Quaida".


years later, Bush still defended that statement. Cheney did too, even as recently as a year ago. and Rice? despite written government proof to the contrary, she continued to claim the same thing.
__________________________________________________ ____________

ok, your turn.
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post #330 of 382 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
You are doing it again.

Dancing around questions, failing to answer, ignoring posts that provide answers and going lalalalalalala when you hear an answer you don't like.

And, reading back on the past two days, there have not been Ad Hominem attacks, there have been accusations that you fail to pay attention to quotes and evidence that you say don't exist but oddly seem posted all over this thread.

You seem to want to be the only person to defend Cheney on this. Everyone else in the Republican Party has accepted that he lied and has just moved beyond it. Maybe you just got too much Kool Aid but go back to the beginning of the thread and try to read without the rose colored glasses. The answers that you avoid are there.

As for why Obama is still prosecuting the Iraq war, he has an obligation to pull out gracefully from the clusterfuck Bush and Cheney started. Anything less would not be honorable.
Well since you have been only sporadically active on this thread maybe you can weigh in with your considerable intellect.

Show us the quote in anything that was posted here or anywhere that shows Bush or Cheney saying that Saddam or Iraq were involved in the Attacks of 9/11.

For you to characterize my responses as dancing around questions is ridiculous on its face. And typical on your part.

If anything I have been rather repetitive in my responses and unerring in my focus.

Feel free to post that quote by the way.

You guys have wanted to catch Bush and Cheney at something, anything, for so long you are prepared to suspend all logic and make stuff up.

How else do you describe the "we know what he meant when he didn't say it" argument?

Show us the quote in anything that was posted here or anywhere that shows Bush or Cheney saying that Saddam or Iraq were involved in the Attacks of 9/11.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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