Speaking of religious fanatics murdering people legally doing their jobs - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 12:49 PM
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I figured it came down to a terminological misunderstanding due to the misuse of the word, 'zealot." Historically, zealots were religious fanatics. If you Google zealot you'll see that even the derived word in current vernacular usage still refers to a person with single-minded fanatical focus.

That might describe the Nazi SS, but even our most elite special ops forces are not zealots, if the word is used properly.

When one talks to those kids out of boot they have a lot of unfocused excitement to get on with their newfound profession. Without a doubt they are mostly teenagers with the teens' enthusiasm for whatever shiny or loud object dances before their eyes. But they aren't pledging themselves to Dear Leader. Could you imagine them getting all misty-eyed over this or any other president? I don't think so.

Or from the older guys in special ops one learns that they are highly self-motivated, trained and focused with possession of a witches brew of tools and their uses. But they have no special focus for a cause other than their unit and mission.
Your second point is very correct, the OLDER GUYS. They have experience that replaces that youthful enthusiasm and hones it into the professional that we expect. That works most all of the time.

As for the first, yes, some are pledging themselves to Dear Leader, well at least to the "cause" whatever that might be and the singular focus and very amp'ed up attitude. It is not everyone, I never said it was. But whenever I have been among troops, in the past 7 years, especially when they are not on duty, there is always a subset that is just ready to kill everything that is not US. One of the phrases that usually is used is "Kill everything and let God sort it out". Now, seeing/hearing that, a Muslim might just not be able to nuance the subtle vernacular variances of zealotry...especially after he has seen video after video of Shock and Awe and whatever other clips he has picked up on the internet.

You are correct that we are just bumping on terminology. I was just going on what I have seen as a very small comment in a very sad story. Our soldier's high focus/zealotry/enthusiasm had nothing to do with their being shot, but each side of that geo-religious-political battle [well beyond bwot] will not see that. And that was my original point.

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post #52 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 01:40 PM
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The abortion case was premeditated murder by one person targeting an individual.
Muhammad fired randomly into a building which is why he is charged with terrorism.
it was definitely an act of terrorism.. this wasn't just about this one doctor and you know it.



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post #53 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Your second point is very correct, the OLDER GUYS. They have experience that replaces that youthful enthusiasm and hones it into the professional that we expect. That works most all of the time.

As for the first, yes, some are pledging themselves to Dear Leader, well at least to the "cause" whatever that might be and the singular focus and very amp'ed up attitude. It is not everyone, I never said it was. But whenever I have been among troops, in the past 7 years, especially when they are not on duty, there is always a subset that is just ready to kill everything that is not US. One of the phrases that usually is used is "Kill everything and let God sort it out". Now, seeing/hearing that, a Muslim might just not be able to nuance the subtle vernacular variances of zealotry...especially after he has seen video after video of Shock and Awe and whatever other clips he has picked up on the internet....
Thank goodness i don't know the people you know or hang around the people you hang around. The kids I've seen, some of whom I've known since they were toddlers, ain't zealots by any stretch. They do their duty. A surprising number are ready and willing to go back to deployment in combat. I have yet to meet one that fits the stereotype that you describe above. The kids I meet or know are very motivated personally and believe in the mission they have been assigned. They'll do their duty regardless of whom is in the White House.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #54 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 06:24 PM
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What's up with that pic? The artist seems to have hate in his heart toward a great man.

The Wisdom Fund - Most Influential Person In History


Prophet Muhammad: Most Influential Person In History
The Quran
We make no distinction among any of the Prophets. -- 2:135
Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History
My choice of Muhammad to lead the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. . .
. . . it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role to the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.

Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition he played a key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran. [The Quran, Muslims believe, is the revealed Word of God.]

Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular leader as well as a religious leader. In fact as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. . . [When Muhammad died in 632, he was the effective leader of all of southern Arabia. By 711, Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean. In a scant century of fighting, the Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of India to the Atlantic Ocean -- the largest empire that the world had yet seen.]

. . the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

Alphonse de Lamartine, Histoire de la Turquie
Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman: to subvert superstitions which had been interposed between man and his creator, to render God unto man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the conception as well as in the execution of such a great design no other instrument than himself, and no other aid, except a handful of men living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's name, Persia, Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt, Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous islands of the Mediterranean, Spain, and a part of Gaul.
If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the true criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls.

On the basis of a Book, every letter of which has become law, he created a spiritual nationality which blended together peoples of every tongue and of every race. He has left us as the indelible characteristic of this Muslim nationality the hatred of false gods and the passion for the One and Immaterial God. This avenging patriotism against the profanation of Heaven formed the virtue of the followers of Muhammad; the conquest of one-third of the earth to his dogma was his miracle; or rather it was not the miracle of a man but that of reason.

The idea of the Unity of God, proclaimed amidst the exhaustion of fabulous theogonies, was in itself such a miracle that upon its utterance from his lips it destroyed all the ancient temples of idols and set on fire one-third of the world. His life, his meditations, his heroic revilings against the superstitions of his country, and his boldness in defying the furies of idolatry, his firmness in enduring them for fifteen years at Mecca, his acceptance of the role of public scorn and almost of being a victim of his fellow countrymen: all these and, finally, his flight, his incessant preaching, his wars against odds, his faith in his success and his superhuman security in misfortune, his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death: all these attest not to an imposture but to affirm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God: the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.

Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? -- Paris 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276- 277
Muhammad's greatness comes from the greatness of his message.. Islam. Those who hate him don't know him at all. Hatred is blind and destructive to the hater. Muhammed, OTOH, is not harmed by it nor is his message.
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post #55 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 06:26 PM
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Muslim killing = terrorist
Christian killing = murder
What's Jewish killing = Deliverance?
.. and self defence . Doesn't Israel call its army Israeli Defence Forces even if they're doing all the attacking AND on other people's soil.
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post #56 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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.. and self defence . Doesn't Israel call its army Israeli Defence Forces even if they're doing all the attacking AND on other people's soil.
It would be a lot more fair to let the Palestinians mad fucking bombers into Israel before killing them. It's only fair to kill them after they've incinerated a school busload of children or dynamited a sinful hell-hole of demon liquor. Oops, I mean "night club."

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #57 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:09 PM
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Thank goodness i don't know the people you know or hang around the people you hang around. The kids I've seen, some of whom I've known since they were toddlers, ain't zealots by any stretch. They do their duty. A surprising number are ready and willing to go back to deployment in combat. I have yet to meet one that fits the stereotype that you describe above. The kids I meet or know are very motivated personally and believe in the mission they have been assigned. They'll do their duty regardless of whom is in the White House.
I go with a friend [Army Major] when each Kentucky unit deploys out. We are there the night before and see folks in normal circumstance at either Fort Campbell, Fort Knox or Wright Patterson AFB. The guys are pumped and ready to rock. I have no problem with that. There is a sub group, however that is always present, has been in each deployment that is well over that edge. The Major usually says that those are the ones that will cost the government the most for the next 40 years. I believe he is correct.

When I go with him to the arrivals, most of the gung-ho is gone. Will they re-up, absolutely. Is that same fire there, NO. That is usually the sole property of the young recruit, just out of boot and ready to go in harms way. They zealotry begins there and usually ends there. Afterward, the very majority are very good soldiers.

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post #58 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:14 PM
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Muslim killing = terrorist
Christian killing = murder
What's Jewish killing = Deliverance?
We call it self-defense around here.

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God Bless the America we're trying to create.
--Hillary Rodham Clinton
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post #59 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:15 PM
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It would be a lot more fair to let the Palestinians mad fucking bombers into Israel before killing them. It's only fair to kill them after they've incinerated a school busload of children or dynamited a sinful hell-hole of demon liquor. Oops, I mean "night club."
Bot, you don't need to respond to Zalupe's posts. Really. It is just a waste of the cyberspace.

This creature is most likely a paid poster with some PR background. I put this creature on Ignore long time ago and never regretted it.

Point is, zalupe is NOT for real IMO.
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post #60 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-05-2009, 09:28 PM
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Bot, you don't need to respond to Zalupe's posts. Really. It is just a waste of the cyberspace.

This creature is most likely a paid poster with some PR background. I put this creature on Ignore long time ago and never regretted it.

Point is, zalupe is NOT for real IMO.
Never put folks on ignore. It takes the fun out.

And some would say that some of our righties are paid posters over the past 9 months. That would be unfair. If so, however, let them earn their living, contribute to the global economy. We all might learn something.

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