Today's "Tolerance" Brought To You By... - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
Surely A Large Human
 
Qubes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2006
Vehicle: '08 C219
Location: Between Earth and Mars
Posts: 34,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Today's "Tolerance" Brought To You By...

...the monotheistic trifecta - Islam, Judaism, and Christianity! See? We can please everyone! Actually, I think this may be the winner for the "Perfectly Sums It All Up" thread in June for BWOT.

God is merciful, but only if you're a man | Ophelia Benson | Comment is free | The Observer

Quote:
God is merciful, but only if you're a man
Jew, Christian or Muslim ... whatever the faith, women are still treated with disdain or worse

Ophelia Benson
The Observer, Sunday 31 May 2009


There is plenty to criticise in Islam's view of women. Last year, the Observer told the story of a man in Basra who stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed to death his 17-year-old daughter for becoming infatuated with a British soldier. The relationship apparently amounted to a few conversations, but her father learnt she had been seen in public talking to the soldier. When the Observer talked to Abdel-Qader Ali two weeks later, he said: "Death was the least she deserved. I don't regret it. I had the support of all my friends who are fathers, like me, and know what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion."

This was clearly extreme, but the truth is that the God many people believe in - whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish - hates women. Take America's Southern Baptist Convention, which declares in its faith and mission statement: "A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband." That's fair enough, isn't it? After all, he's probably stronger than she is.

Or there's the Catholic church. The Pope put things more suavely in an address in 2008: "Faced with cultural and political trends that seek to eliminate, or at least cloud and confuse, the sexual differences inscribed in human nature, considering them a cultural construct, it is necessary to recall God's design that created the human being masculine and feminine, with a unity and at the same time an original difference." The insistence on difference is the necessary first step to insisting on inequality and subordination and it is a step that popes have been taking at regular intervals for decades.

In November 2006, Nicaragua enacted a ban on all abortion, with no exceptions, even to save the mother's life. The law was ratified by the National Assembly in September 2007. Both the original enactment and the vote in September 2007 were widely attributed to the influence of the Catholic church. In a report this month, the United Nations Committee against torture called Nicaragua's total ban on abortion a violation of human rights.

Then there is Judaism. In one neighbourhood in Jerusalem, religious seminaries flank streets with yellow signs that warn: "If you're a woman and you're not properly dressed - don't pass through our neighbourhood."

So why is it so often women who fill the pews? Is it a form of Stockholm syndrome? Religions do a good job of training people to be obedient and loyal to the authorities and women in particular are raised to be both devout and submissive. Religions are sticky: they are hard to abandon and that is doubly true for women, given that subordination and unshakable fidelity are their chief duties.

The fact that women are defined as different from men ("complementary" is the religious euphemism) and confined to narrower, more monotonous lives as a result, means that they have more need of the excitements and passions of religion. For women, religion often is the heart of a heartless world. All they have to give up in exchange is their right to shape their own lives; as long as they behave themselves, all will go swimmingly.

The intimate and inescapable connection that contemporary liberal believers like to see between God and love, theism and compassion, is largely a modern invention. It's far from universal now and it was vanishingly rare in the past. St Francis was an eccentric, not an exemplar. The painful truth is that still, to this day, most people who believe in a god believe in a god who is often vindictive, punitive and sometimes just plain cruel. The Ryan report on abuse of children in Irish industrial schools, released two weeks ago, provides a mountain of searing evidence for that. For decade after decade, generation upon generation, the religious congregations in charge of the institutions saw nothing wrong.

One survivor of Goldenbridge, the most notorious industrial school for girls, run by the Sisters of Mercy, told the commission: "The screaming of children will stay with me for the rest of my life about Goldenbridge. I still hear it, I still haven't recovered from that. Children crying and screaming, it was just endless, it never, never stopped for years in that place." Many of those children were there simply because their mothers were unmarried or divorced.

The God we have in the Big Three monotheisms is a God who originated in a period when male superiority was absolutely taken for granted. That time has passed, but the superior male God remains and that God holds women in contempt. That God is the one who puts "His" imprimatur on all those tyrannical laws. That God is a product of history, but taken to be eternal, which is a bad combination. That is the God who hates women.

So why do so many women put up with it? Partly because God gives with one hand what "He" takes away with the other - God consoles people for the very harshness that God creates. It's the sad, familiar, heartrending bargain in which the victim embraces the perpetrator, in some complicated, confusing, all-too-human mix of appeasement, need and stubborn loyalty. The fact that the embrace is all on one side is resolutely ignored.
Qubes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 03:42 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: 96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Location: N/W Chicago in the cornfields
Posts: 12,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Nice spin Q
Glad you don't pick judgmental subjects or articles.
And again I don't buy the concept in the christian faith, but go ahead and present an article that lumps it all together. That's good journalism, eh?
The "wives submit to your husband" biblical chapter reference also addresses the mens requirement but the article neglects that. Imagine that???

Aardvark
aardvark is offline  
post #3 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 03:51 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Stuantle's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Nice spin Q
Glad you don't pick judgmental subjects or articles.
And again I don't buy the concept in the christian faith, but go ahead and present an article that lumps it all together. That's good journalism, eh?
The "wives submit to your husband" biblical chapter reference also addresses the mens requirement but the article neglects that. Imagine that???

Aardvark
Ahh, one of the most abused parts of the Bible. Someone do the math and tell me (percentage wise) what is required of women vs. men in Corinthians. Only an idiot could argue against the fact that most of the marriage requirements set forth in the verses are directed solely at the man.
Stuantle is offline  
post #4 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
Surely A Large Human
 
Qubes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2006
Vehicle: '08 C219
Location: Between Earth and Mars
Posts: 34,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
^ It's an op-ed piece. Are any of the facts she laid out in dispute though? It wasn't just targeting Christianity.

Also, don't think you're being singled out as a Christian. You could be a Jew, or a Muslim, or anyone else who allows their own intellect and judgment to be replaced by that of a huckster wearing funny hats or robes. It's the intransigent manner with which the religio-fascists here present these truly comical fallacies that earns our scorn. That and the rampant hypocrisy.
Qubes is offline  
post #5 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 04:03 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Stuantle's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
^Stick to the point I made.
Stuantle is offline  
post #6 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 04:09 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Check Codes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2005
Vehicle: '01-E320 & 02-ST2
Location: John 15:18-19
Posts: 31,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
This seems apropos to me...great song either way.

(If nothing else you can enjoy the pretty pictures!)

Check Codes is offline  
post #7 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 04:12 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: 96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Location: N/W Chicago in the cornfields
Posts: 12,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I don't say you are lumping us together.
Just bad, biased authors. You seem to choose em though.
You know, I could go to Christianity Today, or numerous other publications if I wanted to have a media battle, but I don't see the sense of inflaming you. Their articles would be more responsible in their research and writing biases. This author seems to give the opinion that these 3 religions despise woman. HUH??? Muslims definitely have some issues, but Judaism and Christianity put in the same ballpark?

Agree Stuantle, on the point of biblical writings and who (gender wise) gets hampered with responsibility. This applies to the Jewish as well. Still seems to be a non issue for me.

Aardvark.
aardvark is offline  
post #8 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 04:59 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
.........
Agree Stuantle, on the point of biblical writings and who (gender wise) gets hampered with responsibility. .....

Aardvark.
Well, that is a nice spin. Being submissive and obedient to the male is equated with which demeaning and, while you may want to disclaim the Bible's role in wife beating it has been frequently quoted by men as their right to physically abuse a disobedient wife, likely to result in physical beatings if not met to some undefined standards, responsibility in marriage attributed to the male?

Some strange interpretations of the words.

Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #9 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 05:07 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Stuantle's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
^ Try reading the book before you engage your mouth.
Stuantle is offline  
post #10 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 05:12 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: 96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Location: N/W Chicago in the cornfields
Posts: 12,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Is that a church thing , Jim?
That it's ok to whoop on the ole lady? Not in my bible.
Don't know what happens in churches around you, but I've never heard it was acceptable.
Only low lives do that sort of thing. That is not christian love, but instead it is dominance.

Aardvark.
aardvark is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    "Yakuza" Sato's AMG Mercedes from "Black Rain" (starring Michael Douglas&Andy Garcia) JJB236 W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 23 10-05-2009 01:19 PM
    Clinton Advisor: Indianans "Shit", "Worthless White N*rs", Indiana Primary Next Week. Jakarta Expat Off-Topic 4 05-02-2008 03:07 PM
    And to think I was angry when my kid brought home a "C'. ThrillKill Off-Topic 3 10-11-2006 07:51 PM
    Today's NY Times interviews Chris Bangle, defending his "daring" designs... Murray von Kanada R170 SLK-Class 0 11-21-2002 09:44 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome