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post #151 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:09 AM
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Tahloube

I absolutely condemn the terror from any side. Us included. It may have been condemned by the clerics, and I remember it slightly, and then the comments dried up.

I do realize the Iraq people were begging for us to come in way back in the first war, and Bush Sr didn't. Many Iraq citizens were bothered that we didn't finish off Saddam at that point. I think we went in for the right reasons but with flawed info on weapons. A sad thing. Thus it was wrong. I really don't have the answers, but it never felt right. I was definitely bothered with what my Government did and is doing. I don't think it was to bring christianity or anything like that, but instead a warped version of freedom and democracy. I hope it in the long run is beneficial, but I somehow doubt it.

Saddam is a baby dictator in comparison to the Egyptian leader or the Morroccan king or... and we have plenty to fill the blanks with. Iraqi people didn't ask for help from outside and whoever marketed this to the American people is lying a big lie like the WMD. Anyway, that's not the point here. Unfortunately, the majority Christians didn't condemn but even applauded the war which is something I noticed in BWOT as well as many websites and discussion forums.

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The Council of Nicea was nothing more than when the "organized church" accepted the facts. The organized church also killed Jesus, as he predicted. The facts of trinity were immediately obvious with Christs teachings. Actually the word Trinity is not mentioned as a biblical term. It is, however a means of explaining the concept of how the 3 entities work together and are one.
The council you speak of was behind the times in info.
My point was and still is if the Trinity and divine nature of Jesus was a corner stone in Christianity, why wasn't it stated obviously in the Bible? Why wait for organized church to coin down the term in trying to explain the main concept of Christian faith? The (inspired) word of God wasn't good enough? The writers missed the most important point while they elaborated on all the unnecessary details like who married who and who was riding the donkey etc.
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post #152 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:12 AM
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now, you see anteater, it's Taloube's much more gentle, non-judgmental approach which may pique my interest enough to listen to what she says. Not the 'you are wrong if you do not believe what I believe' mantra which YOU chant.

That is what makes you appear foolish and ignorant, despite your protestations of 'free will' and 'the test'. You see, you appear to me at least, the white noise of hollow advertising, all fury and bluster, signifying nothing.

Before you get your knickers in a twist, I don't actually believe that Taloube's colouring book is the answer either, I am however more inclined to look at it and then reject it for me, as it is not projected as the ONLY book to colour in.

As a draftsman, I anticipate that you will at least be able to join the dots on this.

If you cannot open your mind to alternatives - I do not want to ever enter a building you have designed.

I suggest you search some of member joelschniders posts; you would do well to learn from a christian with humility...

Ross

OzBenz

beware of fundamentalists


Last edited by 420 SE; 06-06-2009 at 03:26 AM.
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post #153 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:13 AM
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good luck with your 'test'...

I hope for his sake it's not an IQ test. It ain't looking good...

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #154 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:17 AM
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Again, German I did not accuse you of slamming.
You are always respectful, and yet critical, which is wise.

I also understand others beliefs a little better than you give me credit for. I have lived the other side, and do research other religions as to see where they base from. I can't do much more than that. However, I do know of something that some do not realize in the scheme of things. I keep going back to it, but until experienced, it won't be recognized as even real. It's the Spirit.
To the non christian, and even to some christians, it is not an entity that can be identified. When it is, however, the mindset gets altered.
Don't believe I haven't lived the other side though. Quite the opposite is true.
I'm an X hell raiser, biker, drug, alcohol maniac who has seen the best and worst of folks, yet still am in a professional field, and live a moderate life. Had a lot of fun, but reality is a hard hitter.

Aardvark
Should have pulled out earlier. Explains a lot.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #155 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:35 AM
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Links?

Seriously, I seem to have missed this, what with all the pictures of hordes of people dancing and laughing and cheering in the streets covering television right after it happened.

As you may or may not understand, we were all a bit shocked and emotional. So perhaps you can refresh our memory by calling up some links to "every Muslim leader" condemning the 9/11 attacks. I really would like to make peace with this fact myself. THIS is where Muslims continue to fall down, in my book. Prove me wrong and I swear here and now on the life of my child that I will not hold this against Muslims and correct those who speak falsely.
Here are a few :
Scholars of Islam & the Tragedy of Sept. 11th
Islam Online- News Section
Scholars of Islam & the Tragedy of Sept. 11th of grief and sympathy in the Arab and Muslim world:
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Following 9/11, Leaders and Respected Figures of the Muslim World Condemn the Terrorist Attacks - Beliefnet.com

You promised, didn't you?
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post #156 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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^ I have some reading to do, which I promise I will do, and if those links pass muster, my promise stands.
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post #157 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 06:06 AM
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Tahloube

Your reading assignment is light, and I will read more, if you have further references.

Funny you bring up Jordan. A good friend was just there. If he knew you wanted a copy, he would have definitely given you a copy. He is doing missions work and passed through there for a week. Nonetheless, the Biblos.com site is an excellent site, and the bible can be read in many translations and languages on that site.

Regarding after 911. I did see some clerics speak against the event, but compared to the dancing in the streets, it was minor. This may sound arrogant, but you don't attack a super power country without expecting a major backlash. Wether it be us, China, Russia or other. Not a smart move on the radicals front.

As far as the "trinity" being spelled out, it was pretty much obvious. It does make sense conceptually. It didn't need spelled out. In the reading of John (as well as elsewhere), Jesus touches on what those 3 are, he just never ties them directly together at the same time. He talks about himself as God , and separately he talks about the Spirit and how it works, what it is, as well as how we as individuals can obtain it. The trinity is just a term tying those concepts together. They don't need tied, but it makes sense from an explanation angle.

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post #158 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 06:14 AM
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Dope
And who is intolerant?...
....
Hey Dope, Just picked up Dinesh D'Sousa's new book. "What's so great about Christianity"
Looks like a good read, in contrast to the Chris Hitchens book, and yet less judgmental.

Y'otta pick it up, so you can tear apart the concepts. That's what you attempt to do, isn't it? I say attempt.

Aardvark
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post #159 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 07:27 AM
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420SE
Dope
And who is intolerant?...
....
Hey Dope, Just picked up Dinesh D'Sousa's new book. "What's so great about Christianity"
Looks like a good read, in contrast to the Chris Hitchens book, and yet less judgmental.

Y'otta pick it up, so you can tear apart the concepts. That's what you attempt to do, isn't it? I say attempt.

Aardvark
It would be to your credit if you bothered to spell the guy's name correctly, especially since you claim to have the book in your possession. Me, I got done with reading fairy stories when I was a toddler and if memory serves me well, they were better written by the likes of the brothers Grimm and Enid Blyton.

''Dinesh D'Souza is a bestselling author and conservative Christian activist, who has achieved success by writing books such as Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11. Now he is turning his talents to religious apologetics. In What's So Great about Christianity? D'Souza presents himself as the man to defend theism in general and Christianity in particular against the recent upsurge of atheist argumentation from authors such as Dawkins, Dennett, and Hitchens. D'Souza starts off with a reasonable-sounding manifesto, to take an attitude of equally healthy skepticism to all irrational claims, those made in the name of science as well as those made in the name of religion. The stage seems set for an exciting intellectual confrontation, with overblown atheists at last feeling the "horse kick of a vigorous traditional Christianity."

D'Souza writes well. He works hard to engage and persuade the reader. But the clarity of his writing serves mainly to illuminate the flaws in his thinking. The most positive thing one can say about this book is that it beautifully illuminates how intelligent people can get trapped in incredible belief systems. D'Souza probes each topic until he finds a result congenial to his prejudices, and then stops. Very often a mere quotation from an agreeable authority is enough for him. Obvious counterarguments go unexplored. False dichotomies and sloppy scholarship abound. This book would not pass the kind of peer reviewing that is applied to articles submitted to scientific or philosophical journals. It was surprising, on reaching the end of the book, to find that D'Souza had help from three research assistants, as well as feedback from a physicist and a philosopher....''


(The rest of the review may be found here: Secular Web Kiosk and Bookstore :: Review of Dinesh D'Souza's: What's So Great about Christianity )

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #160 of 183 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 07:37 AM
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I just new you would love him.
Yeah, sorry about the "s". Never claimed to have literary talents.

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