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post #171 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:22 PM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
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I take everything in my life as God's will.


Even your own hypocrisy? How convenient a scapegoat your god is...
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post #172 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:22 PM
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But it is not death to people. That is the point. Pro-life/Pro-choice has never been about people, no matter how folks want to twist it. The law has chewed that one to death and nobody has been able to redefine it. The only time it gets redefined is by zealots who grab a lower court or state chamber and then it is overturned as it gets higher.

So, until opponents can come up with a legitimate argument that doesn't involve the Bible and their particular religious opinions yes, they need to suck it up and obey the laws or change them.
That it is death to people by a large minority of opponents is precisely their point. The nub of the controversy is exactly in that definition. Each side of this argument has forced the other side to take uncomfortable positions of argument. Having accomplished that bit of rhetorical trickery, they talk passed each other in soundbite flashes that ignore the other person and fire-up their own side. The interplay is on this site and in this thread as much as anywhere.

When does life begin? A simple question. Good luck with a simple answer. I'll not burden the reader with a list of the various definitions the two sides have promoted over the years -- could anybody possibly be surprised by something new? I don't think so.

This is how we reduced a very difficult argument to brief flurries of symbols flying hither and yon. In my estimation, anybody who suggests that their own belief is simple, right, and just and should be forced on everybody else is a strange combination of arrogance and naivety. An unpleasant mix.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #173 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:24 PM
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Everything you said so far is no different than what the Taliban says. How do you feel about sharing the same views about life with that group?
Do you even know why the Muslims (Ishmaelites) and Jews (Israelites) are even at war? Take a few days and study why the war has been going on for nearly 5000 years.

Seeing that Christianity stems from Judaism, I worship the God of Israel. Who do you worship?



I laugh at your attempts to turn my words against me.

I'm not a real dickhead...but I acted like one in high school.
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post #174 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Perhaps that is a question you could have in mind when you read the Bible. I'm sure you'll find your answer there.
I didn't, all I read was mayhem and what's in store for us. It's some scary stuff! Should the belief in a deity be based on fear? Should the planet run on rules that justify killings of people who do not obey the words of God by fellow men? If you agree with all these than you should join ranks with the Taliban and sing along some telly tubby songs... sorry I mean Bible and Koran verses to each other for cross reference, you know.
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post #175 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Do you even know why the Muslims (Ishmaelites) and Jews (Israelites) are even at war? Take a few days and study why the war has been going on for nearly 5000 years.

Seeing that Christianity stems from Judaism, I worship the God of Israel. Who do you worship?



I laugh at your attempts to turn my words against me.
Islam is a new comer if you care to check your history books. Before that the sons of Ishmael יִשְׁמָעֵאל and Isaac יִצְחָק got along just fine. Again, if you read your history books you might find out that they shared what is known as Saudi Arabia all the way down to Yemen.
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post #176 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:30 PM
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I didn't, all I read was mayhem and what's in store for us. It's some scary stuff!
If you honestly read it, then you know what will happen next. Pay particular attention to the book of Daniel and Revelations. The history has been written, and it is our future.

How can it be, that more prophesy has come true since 1947 than all of the 5000 years preceding it...and you not see it?

I'm not a real dickhead...but I acted like one in high school.
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post #177 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:32 PM
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Roe v. Wade isn't a "law", first of all - the judicial doesn't legislate.

Second, I'm not sure if that ruling can withstand a meaningful challenge by non-RWNJ's. If it were up to me, the court system would need to weigh in on the (frankly, appalling) inconsistencies in laws across the nation that seem to lay out when it is and is not acceptable to kill an unborn child.

I've made the argument before that drawing a line in the sand with respect to how many weeks of gestation = viability is a fruitless exercise. As medical science improves, that point will keep moving backwards.

One has to assume that with a remarkably low infant mortality rate, and with a less than 25% miscarriage rate (75% of which are first-trimester), betting against childbirth in America is a futile endeavor. Nature will make the ultimate decision regarding whether or not a child is carried to term based on things it knows that we cannot. A fetus should be considered alive and viable with one exception, and that is if nature weighs in and results in a natural miscarriage. When you take our meddling out of the mix, the odds are statistically, overwhelmingly in favor of the fetus.

This isn't a religious argument, or a moral argument (other than that in this light, killing a fetus is the same as killing any other human). If a woman can "choose" to kill her offspring just because it hasn't left her womb yet, but not once it leaves, something is amiss. She either needs to be able to kill her children any time she wants, or we need to get rid of this antiquated and obtuse notion that a child is like any other organ in her body with which she's free to butcher at will.
I didn't call Roe v Wade a law, I said it was the law of the land.
The fact that the SC, by their ruling, outlawing all previous state and federal laws with regard to a woman's right to an abortion, forced those entities to re-write their own laws.
The court's decision made abortion legal; call it non-legislative or not, but when you tell the legislation that they are wrong....to go back and re-write their laws, you are in essence, legislating.
How can you claim this is neither a religious, nor a moral argument, then go on to make a moral argument? The fact of the matter is simply that abortion is legal; doesn't matter whether you or I agree with it. Every thing else is semantics.
Being pro-choice doesn't necessarily make someone anti-life. I may not like the law either, but who am I to place my moral or religious beliefs above someone else.
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post #178 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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If you honestly read it, then you know what will happen next. Pay particular attention to the book of Daniel and Revelations. The history has been written, and it is our future.

How can it be, that more prophesy has come true since 1947 than all of the 5000 years preceding it...and you not see it?
Again, as I said, the Taliban and other Muslim extremists share your views 100%. Don't you like that epiphany?
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post #179 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:35 PM
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Hey drew...the horse is dead. I concede to the fact that you won't believe they way I do...ever. Perhaps you should do the same.

I'm not a real dickhead...but I acted like one in high school.
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post #180 of 251 (permalink) Old 06-01-2009, 01:36 PM
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Revelation/Daniel ? Spot on Dude!

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(hang in, I get your concepts)
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