Intolerance, prejudice and hypocrisy alive and well in BWOT... - Page 21 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #201 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
When you get there, be sure to mention to all your pals that they suck.
Done. They said thank you too... Then we said a prayer and sacrificed a young ACLU member in your name

It looks like the cut the E off of your avatar. Or perhaps you havent earned it yet. From you comments I am leaning toward the latter.
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post #202 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:11 PM
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Give it to him!

Erm, what E?

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post #203 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:21 PM
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Just so I'm clear: personal attacks and hate speech are okay? So when CancerResearcher gets back from his wife-imposed break I can attack him for no reason but his claims to follow Islam and that is really okay with you?

That's what you're defending in the name of free speech and open dialog?
What, you're worried that all the haters will leave?

I often enjoy dialog and debate, in fact I laughed out loud when I saw GS post about lost debates because 95% of the people on here have no idea what a debate or argument is. They go down an irrelvant tangent, ignoring the point (just as most of this thread has done) and if you challenge them on a point, you get personally attacked or told to go [blank] yourself. If other people were as clear-thinking and respectful of what actually constitutes debate and argument as Mr. Smith, for example, that would be a different issue entirely. But they aren't; nor should they be. We're all different, which is the good thing, but using that to excuse ridiculous ranting conduct is a bit screwy.

As to my beliefs, yes, I am a Christian for the 2 of you that didn't know. But that's irrelevant to the broader point. The reason I started the recent threads were because of the recent attacks in threads about Christianity. If it had come up in a different context we'd be having this discussion in a different context, but at least it wouldn't be about the double-standard that has shown its ugly head. People have gotten timeouts for going after just about everything and everyone else, but hey, it's open season on those professing that particular faith. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ANY FAVORITISM, just equalized treatment instead of the double standard. You want examples? Sheesh, all you have to do is search for recent threads and read through them. Again, I won't name names, but there is one member in particular who has it in for anything to do with Christianity and paints any Christian or Christian church with her/his negative, bigoted brush, and when staff then joins in the attack...well, I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is defending that sort of conduct. Instead of making presumptions or looking for some hidden motive, help me understand it, willya?

Nor do I want the removal of this double standard to go the other way. I don't want to be able to attack someone for their religion, sexual preference (or lack thereof!), race, creed, skin color, car choice, bad breath, etc. This should be a place where people can share their thoughts, opinions and beliefs openly and be subject to debate and argument -- but without fear of being attacked personally. Free speech is limited in lots of ways outside of this site; what are you so scared of by implementing that tiny limitation in this context? How does attacking someone personally and throwing bigoted, profane speech at them do anything to bolster an argument? Or is it that you don't want to somehow offend the haters, and the heck with what the rest of the members and potential members think?

***************

Now...getting back to the broader issue...if you really don't think the nonsense that goes on in BWOT does not reflect on the rest of the forum, you really need to buy a vowel. You're simply living in a fog, or at least being stupidly wishful. That's like being on the Titanic (coincidentally the last survivor of which just passed away in the UK) and arguing that since you're in a separate stateroom, you'll be fine. Naturally, you're free to contend that it is separate and distinct, but if you're going to take that tack, then make it separate and distinct, otherwise we're all winking and grinning because we know quite well that it is not. Anyone can drift in (or be appalled by the titles when clicking on "new posts") without regard to age, membership, premium or ... And you can't join BW without being part of OT, just like you can't board Titanic without being on board.

And...please forgive my obvious stupidity, but first and foremost, is this not this supposed to be a forum for automotive enthusiasts, particuarly those with a fondness for the Mercedes marque? How and why is it that OT has somehow risen to be more important than the rest of the site?
First, OT is just an outpost of BW. We have about 30-40 folks here of the 1400 or so daily participants of BenzWorld. BWOT is one of the smallest elements of the board as far as number of users [right now we have 22 members, 126 has 38 and 210 has 37 logged in as three examples]. Overall we have 414 members and 1095 guests onboard. So OT is just an outpost in the weeds. We are, however a pretty tight community within the forum. And you ask "is this not this supposed to be a forum for automotive enthusiasts?" well, NO. Hence OFF TOPIC.

As for personal attacks and hate speech. Those are very broadly defined. We work with what we have all called a wide gray, fuzzy, winding, hard to define line. Much like porn, we tend to know it when we see it. And since those on the outside don't know what the mods do or don't do, they don't know what notes have been sent to address things and to keep things off of boil.

I know from experience that it is much easier to define hate speech when that is directed toward a cause or group that you are close to and harder to define when it is directed at others.

Regarding the Christianity threads, the one guideline that I have tried to use before sending out notes is to ask, is the poster questioning the theology and beliefs of the other side or is the poster getting personal. I translate that over to Global Climate Change to take the very personal keys out of it and see if it is personal or questioning the theories that are espoused.

When folks get into a discussion on religion and open their heart and mind up to their beliefs, and lay those beliefs out, with Christianity, they are going to be questioned and questioned hard, just like we question Muslim beliefs and we question Jewish beliefs and we question others. Some folks just can't take that kind of very harsh, to the metal questioning without taking offense, while others look at the discussion as purely academic and without emotion or personal consideration.

We are worldwide here. Christianity is just one of many religions and viewpoints. When we have this set of discussions it is going to get heated. Just as one side says that another side is moronic for believing that X church is wrong and only their brand is actually going to heaven and another side says that anyone that believes X or Y is an idiot and yet another side says that everyone can believe what they want but stay away from the government side of things and side five says but we think that we should guide the government in how folks live because we know we are the only way. We don't have passive folks here. Opinions are going to be expressed when those lines are drawn.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #204 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:44 PM
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I will be rappelling off of two 120 ft faces and hiking through beautiful forests for six hours.

Guess which is the most spiritual experience.
Depends. I have had great spiritual experiences in church and I have had great spirituals in nature. Climbing 10 pitches of the Flatirons in Boulder was definitely one of them.

Hope all went.
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post #205 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:47 PM
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Give it to him!

Erm, what E?

ACLUE
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post #206 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:56 PM
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Depends. I have had great spiritual experiences in church and I have had great spirituals in nature. Climbing 10 pitches of the Flatirons in Boulder was definitely one of them.

Hope all went.
I've been to the top of all three flatirons many, many times, and spent an inordinate amount of time in Eldorado Springs Canyon (a friend had full access to his uncle's cabin (cabin?) there for the better part of three school years), and had managed the Bastille, Green Spur, Yellow Spur, and Wind Ridge, though I believe I most enjoyed tubing that wild creek.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #207 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gregs210 View Post
Just so I'm clear: personal attacks and hate speech are okay? So when CancerResearcher gets back from his wife-imposed break I can attack him for no reason but his claims to follow Islam and that is really okay with you?

That's what you're defending in the name of free speech and open dialog?
What, you're worried that all the haters will leave?

I often enjoy dialog and debate, in fact I laughed out loud when I saw GS post about lost debates because 95% of the people on here have no idea what a debate or argument is. They go down an irrelvant tangent, ignoring the point (just as most of this thread has done) and if you challenge them on a point, you get personally attacked or told to go [blank] yourself. If other people were as clear-thinking and respectful of what actually constitutes debate and argument as Mr. Smith, for example, that would be a different issue entirely. But they aren't; nor should they be. We're all different, which is the good thing, but using that to excuse ridiculous ranting conduct is a bit screwy.

As to my beliefs, yes, I am a Christian for the 2 of you that didn't know. But that's irrelevant to the broader point. The reason I started the recent threads were because of the recent attacks in threads about Christianity. If it had come up in a different context we'd be having this discussion in a different context, but at least it wouldn't be about the double-standard that has shown its ugly head. People have gotten timeouts for going after just about everything and everyone else, but hey, it's open season on those professing that particular faith. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ANY FAVORITISM, just equalized treatment instead of the double standard. You want examples? Sheesh, all you have to do is search for recent threads and read through them. Again, I won't name names, but there is one member in particular who has it in for anything to do with Christianity and paints any Christian or Christian church with her/his negative, bigoted brush, and when staff then joins in the attack...well, I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is defending that sort of conduct. Instead of making presumptions or looking for some hidden motive, help me understand it, willya?

Nor do I want the removal of this double standard to go the other way. I don't want to be able to attack someone for their religion, sexual preference (or lack thereof!), race, creed, skin color, car choice, bad breath, etc. This should be a place where people can share their thoughts, opinions and beliefs openly and be subject to debate and argument -- but without fear of being attacked personally. Free speech is limited in lots of ways outside of this site; what are you so scared of by implementing that tiny limitation in this context? How does attacking someone personally and throwing bigoted, profane speech at them do anything to bolster an argument? Or is it that you don't want to somehow offend the haters, and the heck with what the rest of the members and potential members think?

***************

Now...getting back to the broader issue...if you really don't think the nonsense that goes on in BWOT does not reflect on the rest of the forum, you really need to buy a vowel. You're simply living in a fog, or at least being stupidly wishful. That's like being on the Titanic (coincidentally the last survivor of which just passed away in the UK) and arguing that since you're in a separate stateroom, you'll be fine. Naturally, you're free to contend that it is separate and distinct, but if you're going to take that tack, then make it separate and distinct, otherwise we're all winking and grinning because we know quite well that it is not. Anyone can drift in (or be appalled by the titles when clicking on "new posts") without regard to age, membership, premium or ... And you can't join BW without being part of OT, just like you can't board Titanic without being on board.

And...please forgive my obvious stupidity, but first and foremost, is this not this supposed to be a forum for automotive enthusiasts, particuarly those with a fondness for the Mercedes marque? How and why is it that OT has somehow risen to be more important than the rest of the site?
+1.


Overall, posters on BWOT should be Mercedes owners or GTFO.

Unless they are moderators or Nobel Prize laureats.
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post #208 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
I still think Zappa was a talentless tasteless motherfucker.

Sorry Z I have to express my opinion about one of your saints.

No hard feelings I hope.

Last edited by maine_coon; 05-31-2009 at 10:08 PM.
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post #209 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I've been to the top of all three flatirons many, many times, and spent an inordinate amount of time in Eldorado Springs Canyon (a friend had full access to his uncle's cabin (cabin?) there for the better part of three school years), and had managed the Bastille, Green Spur, Yellow Spur, and Wind Ridge, though I believe I most enjoyed tubing that wild creek.
Hard to get to the top, look out there, then think and feel yep we here by complete happenstance. Then again it could just be me.
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post #210 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 10:19 PM
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No need to consider such things at all. Enjoy each moment for exactly what it is, especially those moments of keen achievement.

You might enjoy this: Arizona

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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