Intolerance, prejudice and hypocrisy alive and well in BWOT... - Page 19 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #181 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:20 PM
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it is hardwired.

Jim
Do bonobos have gods? I've heard this "hard-wired" thing before, and it usually stands as a reference to some part of our brain other than our neocortex (limbic system or reptile brain), which we share in some manner with other vertebrates. My dog does not have an alter, of that I am fairly certain.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #182 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:22 PM
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Do bonobos have gods? I've heard this "hard-wired" thing before, and it usually stands as a reference to some part of our brain other than our neocortex (limbic system or reptile brain), which we share in some manner with other vertebrates. My dog does not have an alter, of that I am fairly certain.
Altar?

In reference to a dog, 'alter' has a more personal relationship.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #183 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:37 PM
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Didn't expect you to read the book. I doubt it's in a library. The point is that if you're not careful, you can let people 'fool' you into believing something by providing evidence that sounds logical but in reality is fallacious.

And an appeal to the masses - "Billions of people over thousands of years are right about something" - is probably the most nauseating of all logical fallacies. That type of thinking has been proven wrong over and over again. Flat earth ring a bell? FFS...
I prefer to believe that my frequent abuse at the hands of tricksters is due to maintaining an open mind, not that I have an empty one.

So I'll continue to accept things pretty much at face value until I believe a pattern emerges then I'll see where the pattern leads. So far that approach has kept me reasonably happy and prosperous.

Apparently you are willing to define "something" rather more narrowly than I define it, then you reject "it" however you define "it." Fine with me, but that's not my way. I live with ambiguity hoping for clarity, not imposing it from my need for order but rather, of its own accord in its own time.

No big deal.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #184 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:44 PM
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I have empathy. I have left forums before because I didn't like their tone or their members.
One empathize with others instead of oneself.

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The point is, if a person doesn't like the tone of a forum or doesn't like the way it is moderated [or not moderated] I find it odd that many stay anyway. This is suppose to be recreation. I am fully unaware of any members who are court ordered to be here and participate on a daily basis.

Which brings the question, either you like it and like the agate of the very spirited and sometimes heated debates that is part of BWOT or your don't. If so, stay and have fun, if not, I can't see the attraction of the forum.
Look, in a heated discussion, the parties involved are already vested in them expending time, feeling emotion and stress. They care passionately about the subject at hand. So please don't just brush them off with the unfeeling perspective of a third party (i.e. lack of empathy) and tell them to buzz off. Unlike real brawls, no one usually gets hurt in the end.

... and this important discussion continues.


Dooloogssst!
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post #185 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:49 PM
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Altar?

In reference to a dog, 'alter' has a more personal relationship.
Ooops, my other self wrote that.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #186 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:51 PM
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Ooops, my other self wrote that.
Is a priest an 'altar ego'?

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #187 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 06:03 PM
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Snicker, snicker, chortle...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #188 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Apparently you are willing to define "something" rather more narrowly than I define it, then you reject "it" however you define "it." Fine with me, but that's not my way. I live with ambiguity hoping for clarity, not imposing it from my need for order but rather, of its own accord in its own time.

No big deal.

B
Neither of those statements about me is true. I think that anything worth believing, is worth being tested. If it stands the test of honest intellectual scrutiny, you can put your full conviction into it. If it doesn't, you can toss it to the curb with full conviction.

What I don't understand is people who bristle and bow up at the first insinuation that they have no idea what they believe. That's the plainest symptom of any that, in fact, they don't know what they believe. They only "know" what they've been told to think, and why they've been told to think it (presumably something more substantive than "BECAUSE" would be required, but not much more than "OR ELSE YOU'LL GO TO HELL" it wouldn't appear).

A person who has scrutinized and tested their beliefs and not found them wanting will have enough confidence in those beliefs not to be offended by those who would question them. They would have answers, and probably be interested in sharing them.

Rather, what we see evidenced by the OP and it's cosignatories, is the evidence of ignorance. When someone is told to believe something DEEPLY usually from a young age, and is emotionally invested in that belief with their entire being, it's pretty rigid. They cannot stand having those beliefs questioned, because they have NO IDEA why they believe what they do.

The same is true if someone develops a belief, then actively searches out information in SUPPORT of those beliefs. This is fallacious, obviously. It's circular reasoning - a true example of begging the question if ever there was one. "God exists, because the Bible says so, and it was written by God."

Religion is a fun topic to discuss, only because people who hold their beliefs deeply almost never are able to substantiate them without invoking any number of fallacious arguments. Which is why I recently included links to collections and descriptions of logical fallacies in my signature recently.

Religion is a gigantic mindfuck designed to imbue the ignorant with a sense of superiority, in exchange for which they are to sacrifice their money and substitute their own free will and judgement for that of the religious leadership. It is a play for money and power, plain and simple. If a devil exists, religion is his tool. Anything good that comes from it is an accident, and speaks to the inherent good nature in people - which is being preyed upon, and has been preyed upon for ages and ages. As far back as Jesus, and before I'm sure.

Now, let me pose this question to you. If you're an individual who holds a deep religious belief, and you encounter someone who makes the previous argument to you, what's the worst that could happen if I'm wrong?

If I'm wrong, and you genuinely challenge each of your beliefs, you will emerge with a deeper and stronger understanding of those beliefs and your faith will be stronger for it.

But if I'm right...you genuinely challenge each of your beliefs, find them to be completely opposite of what you had thought all these years - what do you do?

No wonder people favor ignorance over enlightenment...ignorance is a lot easier.
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post #189 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 07:36 PM
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You take it all far more seriously than I do. Consequently, you write with great intenisty and conviction. I believe you believe what you believe and I believe you believe it to be true.

So what?

there are folks who believe just as strongly and as intensely as you, have questioned themselves as thoroughly and come to the conclusion which you discount. Read up on the Jesuit Order for an example of people who question their convictions very deeply. I have no doubt there are Muslims and Daoists, and Shintos, and Scientologists, Republicans and Chevy salesman who believe intensely in their products, too.

So what?

In the final analysis, none of it is objectively demonstrable, not even physical reality. For as Germanstar previously pointed-out, the only way to prove any of its existence scientifically is to be able to step outside of that which is being investigated. Instead, existence is implicitly assumed in all science. Fine with me. It's a limitation I free acknowledge. I work with the world we have, not the world we might wish we had.

Alduous Huxley thought he found a way, but he couldn't prove it, either. It sure was a lot more fun.

Whatever floats your boat.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #190 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Do bonobos have gods? I've heard this "hard-wired" thing before, and it usually stands as a reference to some part of our brain other than our neocortex (limbic system or reptile brain), which we share in some manner with other vertebrates. My dog does not have an alter, of that I am fairly certain.
Next time I am conversing with a bonobos clan I will ask them and tell you, but only if you agree to do the same. If they have gods and an infallible holy book, I will see if they can send you a version of their holy book to read for a few bananas.

Check the current issue of Scientific American on the subject of how little of our DNA differs from chimps and how different we are, or are not. In fact, it is noted there are more similarities in the DNA of a chimp and a chicken according to the article. And most of the differences, it would seem, have to do with the size and complexity of the brains of chimps and humans. Maybe having this big brain is troubling without a few deus ex machina solutions to the questions the big brain gins up. Who knows?

Jim
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