Intolerance, prejudice and hypocrisy alive and well in BWOT... - Page 18 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #171 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ThrillKill View Post
John Kerry and Ann Coulter?
Shhhheee-it!

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #172 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 11:12 AM
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Ya gotta admit, that's some funny stuff right there
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post #173 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 11:18 AM
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Ya gotta admit, that's some funny stuff right there
It's killing me.

The man has been a freaking Sgt York.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #174 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ThrillKill View Post
John Kerry and Ann Coulter?
nag, hag, nag.

The surprise rain storm at 2 am made the hike and climbs a bust. It also sent one of the horses into foaling. So there is a new baby at the farm. Heading out there in a couple of hours.

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Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #175 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 01:18 PM
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This is, without question the single best question asked. I have never understood why folks who either don't like a subject or are offended by a subject or don't like the participants of a subject don't just hit the back button and either find a different subject or, if the entire forum is too hot, a different forum.

...
Showing some empathy will help there.
A conflict exists precisely because the parties care deeply about the issues.

... and this important discussion continues.


Dooloogssst!
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post #176 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 01:46 PM
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Showing some empathy will help there.
A conflict exists precisely because the parties care deeply about the issues.
I have empathy. I have left forums before because I didn't like their tone or their members.

The point is, if a person doesn't like the tone of a forum or doesn't like the way it is moderated [or not moderated] I find it odd that many stay anyway. This is suppose to be recreation. I am fully unaware of any members who are court ordered to be here and participate on a daily basis.

Which brings the question, either you like it and like the agate of the very spirited and sometimes heated debates that is part of BWOT or your don't. If so, stay and have fun, if not, I can't see the attraction of the forum.

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post #177 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 04:41 PM
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Reference please. I am aware of his 'son of god' statement, in the sense that are all children of god. I am also aware of a statement in which he claims that god is greater than him (thus he is not god), as god is greater than us all.
John, chapter 4.

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: John 4:25-26


The real bitch, which hasn't gone unnoticed incidentally, is that he never made this "easy" for people by just outright saying "I'm the messiah", at least not in public, not often. He danced around it a lot, just about every way you can imagine. I really do wonder if he wasn't a harmless, gentle version of a David Koresh, and that what was depicted in "Life of Brian" wasn't perhaps the most accurate guess we have yet seen regarding the life he led.

Last edited by Qubes; 05-31-2009 at 04:53 PM.
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post #178 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 04:50 PM
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I'm not going to read the book. As I said previously, I don't care enough. Bein g made uncomfortable by an argument is not the same as being convinced by an argument -- whence my reference to Aquinas. His arguments concerning God are extremely compelling and the best counterarguments for the first two are (to me) tedious and unsatisfactory.

Even though I am not now nor have I ever been a lawyer, I fully accept that eye-witness testimony is problematic and usually quite unreliable. In my own experience I have seen simple things that I believed I understood very clearly but later discovered I did not understand and in fact, was quite wrong. I can easily multiply that by any number of billions. Observer's comments maybe cumulative into a correlatively useful argument, but are not causational.

But do let us look at observation as a tool of understanding. It has brought us both the ptolemaic and copernican systems. If we dwell on just Ptolemy and discard observations because of that erroneous system, then we would never have arrived at Copernicus. Because Copernicus' system was based on observation, too.

Thus, I would argue that billions of people over thousands of years are right about something, just as Ptolemy was right about something. Don't discount all observations simply because one derived answer appears flawed.

B
Didn't expect you to read the book. I doubt it's in a library. The point is that if you're not careful, you can let people 'fool' you into believing something by providing evidence that sounds logical but in reality is fallacious.

And an appeal to the masses - "Billions of people over thousands of years are right about something" - is probably the most nauseating of all logical fallacies. That type of thinking has been proven wrong over and over again. Flat earth ring a bell? FFS...

As a species, we seem completely incapable of dealing with uncertainty - so much so, that we'll fabricate answers to questions, just so that they don't bother us anymore. Happens all the time.

The existence of religions serve to proactively answer the questions that any modern human being would eventually be dying to ask - where did we REALLY come from, originally? I'd imagine this starts as early as age 5 or so, maybe younger, and on. Tough questions, because we don't KNOW. We have to make GUESSES. It takes EDUCATION, and it's COMPLICATED.

Religion offers an easy way out as it applies to answering those questions...either for adult individuals, or for their children. In no way can any of that be construed as an accurate account. The more we learn about the past, the more trouble religious texts offer. If you cannot rely on what the religious texts say, what then is the purpose of following them?
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post #179 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 04:55 PM
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Bot, perhaps you'll read this instead.

Logical Fallacies and How to Spot Them
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post #180 of 342 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I'm not going to read the book. As I said previously, I don't care enough. Bein g made uncomfortable by an argument is not the same as being convinced by an argument -- whence my reference to Aquinas. His arguments concerning God are extremely compelling and the best counterarguments for the first two are (to me) tedious and unsatisfactory.

Even though I am not now nor have I ever been a lawyer, I fully accept that eye-witness testimony is problematic and usually quite unreliable. In my own experience I have seen simple things that I believed I understood very clearly but later discovered I did not understand and in fact, was quite wrong. I can easily multiply that by any number of billions. Observer's comments maybe cumulative into a correlatively useful argument, but are not causational.

But do let us look at observation as a tool of understanding. It has brought us both the ptolemaic and copernican systems. If we dwell on just Ptolemy and discard observations because of that erroneous system, then we would never have arrived at Copernicus. Because Copernicus' system was based on observation, too.

Thus, I would argue that billions of people over thousands of years are right about something, just as Ptolemy was right about something. Don't discount all observations simply because one derived answer appears flawed.

B
I believe when you observe people all around the world from all kinds of cultures and levels of industrialization/technological advancement doing the same thing it is hard wired for the benefit of survival of the species. Believing in god or a creator or something that gives reason to our existence is probably a benefit to survival, like eating, or fucking or coming in out of the rain. I think it has a lot less to do with some kind of unexplainable and never to be understood "truth."

But, hey, that is just a theory about some observations. The need for order and rules is common to all versions of civilization created by mankind. Along with that comes some bland explanation for all we don't understand - a god we can attribute regular events, like sunrise and a god we can attribute unpredictable bad shit, like bad weather, or drought or earthquakes to when that was all a mystery. We understand some of that stuff so we don't have to worship all those "gods" now. I observe a pattern - but don't think we will ever be in a position, as a species, to toss out the crutch - one we will never know enough, and two, it is hardwired.

Jim
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