Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:59 PM
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Actually it was reduced to 15% in Dec 08 as part of a 'stimulus package'. Just think, if it had been reduced to 0%, we would now be super-stimulated....
True, but Dig has taken his vacation down the road this year. My hunch is that he won't be going abroad before 31/12/09 at which point it's right back up to 17.5%
I wouldn't rule out 20% in the near future. Spending taxes are considered more politically expedient by both New Labour and the 'new' Conservatives.

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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 05:05 PM
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I think where the problem lies with that model of "just cutting spending" is that the programs that get cut, for the most part are going to be picked up by the states on some levels. That just pushes the taxes down a level, not eliminating them.

I keep reading the budget and seeing what big swath of cuts can be made to actually make a substantive difference. Adding up bunches of little things, like dropping the building of a carrier group as an example all have positives but also have negatives.

Using the carrier group as an example, the jobs lost from shutting down the building of the group [a collection of ships, not just the carrier, and its planes] would 1) devastate the economies of the shipyards that build the boats and the towns that build the planes. Further all that money that stops would NOT be flowing into the economy, with 25-30% coming right back into the coffers for taxes, SSI monies, medicare monies, etc. The the 70% remaining would not be pushing through the economy.

Move that one step further and the 15,000 sailors of a carrier task force would not be needed, along with the ancillary troops that go with them. More unemployment.

This is a problem for which there are not easy answers. Just turning off one spigot of appropriations to "save" money will have nearly as many negative affects as keeping the money flowing.

I don't advocate debt, and I don't advocate starving the population by overtaxing them, and I also don't advocate cutting programs that will just move to state level and cost as much or more as we would then have "a bit less federal tax" and "a bit more state tax" and the guarantee is that the aggregate would be greater than current.

So what is the Bigger picture solution, one that looks well beyond just the numbers of the budget.
Well, here's an easy answer or two for some of the data you've shared. If we don't need something, say, an aircraft carrier, don't buy one. The government buying something we don't need just for the purposes you've advocated (all the sailors, shipbuilders, etc) is really dumb.

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post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 05:25 PM
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Well, here's an easy answer or two for some of the data you've shared. If we don't need something, say, an aircraft carrier, don't buy one. The government buying something we don't need just for the purposes you've advocated (all the sailors, shipbuilders, etc) is really dumb.
I never said we don't need them. I am guessing that the next 12 months is going to show how much since we are down to 12.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 07:21 PM
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True, but Dig has taken his vacation down the road this year. My hunch is that he won't be going abroad before 31/12/09 at which point it's right back up to 17.5%
I wouldn't rule out 20% in the near future. Spending taxes are considered more politically expedient by both New Labour and the 'new' Conservatives.
I'll be in Hawaii for a little over a week at the end of June. Does that qualify as "abroad".

I tend not to go places where I have to ask for "American Sauce" when I want to put ketchup on my fries (chips).

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 07:34 PM
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we don't call it American Sauce nor ketchup, but Tomato Sauce, dead horse or sauce will get you what you are after down here.

We also put gravy on chips down here...

Ross

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post #46 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 07:37 PM
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Economics is a sort of description of events which, in hindsight, it makes with perfect clarity and little understanding.

It cannot predict reliably.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #47 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 07:52 PM
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I'll be in Hawaii for a little over a week at the end of June. Does that qualify as "abroad".

I tend not to go places where I have to ask for "American Sauce" when I want to put ketchup on my fries (chips).
1) Yes and no.

2) I've been around a bit, but I've never visited anywhere that calls ketchup 'American sauce'. To where were you referring?

Maybe this will help clarify any confusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFzyYYZsxGc

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Last edited by Smackrattle; 05-30-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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post #48 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 08:00 PM
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Economics is a sort of description of events which, in hindsight, it makes with perfect clarity and little understanding.

It cannot predict reliably.

B
Sure it can. Economics' main problem is that those predictions and models are usually utilized by politicians which spin them for non economic purposes.

Economic modeling and forecasting helped Wall Street grow exponentially from 1990. Greed was the primary trigger that put it on its ass. There were, however hundreds of economists who were running up big red flags on the current mess as early as 2005, many deadly accurate.

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post #49 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 08:20 PM
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Well, here's an easy answer or two for some of the data you've shared. If we don't need something, say, an aircraft carrier, don't buy one. The government buying something we don't need just for the purposes you've advocated (all the sailors, shipbuilders, etc) is really dumb.
What do you want to bet that was the Pharoaonic Justification for yet another pyramid. "We need ANOTHER pyramid to keep all of those Hebrews working making bricks and shit."

"Help! I'm being oppressed!"

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #50 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 08:25 PM
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Sure it can. Economics' main problem is that those predictions and models are usually utilized by politicians which spin them for non economic purposes.

Economic modeling and forecasting helped Wall Street grow exponentially from 1990. Greed was the primary trigger that put it on its ass. There were, however hundreds of economists who were running up big red flags on the current mess as early as 2005, many deadly accurate.
Shoot. Ask any economists who subscribe to different schools what A) Caused the Great Depression, B) What ended the Great Depression, C) cause of the recovery in the early 1980's, D) how long it projected, E) what caused the current unpleasantness, F) when (if) it will recover and you'll get

(6^n)/2 answers

where n = the number of economists.

This can be generalized (x^n)/2

where x = number of questions.

And each will be exactly right: Just look at my graph.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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