Prop 8 upheld by CA Supreme Court 6-1 - Page 23 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #221 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Actually, I think that the library is mine, not Qs.

The Franklin speech has been contentious for over 200 years. What he said, why he said it, even IF he said parts of it.

What is know for sure is that he stepped up at a moment in time to refocus everyone on the true meaning of what needed addressed.

Here is one scholars view of what he calls the "controversy". It brings the meaning of WHY he said what he said to question. The source is good and well researched with solid references. It doesn't discount the merits of what he said, but it does put things in a somewhat different view.

The Franklin Prayer
My appologies on the library comment. Caught up in the moment and your sigs are too much alike.

Good link. The myth is a good case in point of people trying to rewrite history to serve their own purpose. If one to is to cite history to support their opinion they need to be honest with not only with themselve but with the party they are presenting the opinion to.

George Washington is case in point for a Founding Father that overtly showed great faith through his speaches and letters. The Library of Congress has not only the transcripts but the actual letter and speeches in his own hand.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/mss/mgw/mgw2/040/2840272.jpg
Transcription: Washington's Inaugural Address
mcc/053
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post #222 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:22 PM
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Freaking A.

So many new posters, so many apologies from them.

And I am wasting so much time reading those posts trying to find something close to intelligent.
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post #223 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:33 PM
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Freaking A.

So many new posters, so many apologies from them.

And I am wasting so much time reading those posts trying to find something close to intelligent.
Maine_coon

Dont mistake integrity and humility for weakness. The apology was for sending the wise ass comment to the wrong guy. I do not apologize for the content of my comment(s), only for the fact that it was misdirected.

It takes integrity and humility to admit when your wrong. (OK, insert comments about me being wrong on the Prop 8 subject matter here_______________)
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post #224 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:35 PM
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My appologies on the library comment. Caught up in the moment and your sigs are too much alike.

Good link. The myth is a good case in point of people trying to rewrite history to serve their own purpose. If one to is to cite history to support their opinion they need to be honest with not only with themselve but with the party they are presenting the opinion to.
So the question is, which group is trying to rewrite history to serve their purpose? The group that puts the Franklin Prayer speech in abstract form, void of context or the group that floods the Franklin Prayer speech with secondary and tertiary sources, all from The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 which cast a different view as to the motives and reasoning behind the speech? Each could be considered to be presenting to the best light of their point of view and purpose.

I tend to look at the body of Franklin's words and see what is consistent throughout his life. I also find that, many times as the founders got older they changed their viewpoints on many things, the perceptions of religion among them [that is a very good trait in anyone]. So it is possible in some of these folks to pull very accurate slices of their beliefs at different times that signify different views of their philosophy.

Earlier this month I was at a roundtable with Buddhist monks, Cherokee Shamen, a Presbyterian Minister and a few other folks. My thoughts changed on some things changes a bit just within that two day period.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #225 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:52 PM
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Maine_coon

Dont mistake integrity and humility for weakness. The apology was for sending the wise ass comment to the wrong guy. I do not apologize for the content of my comment(s), only for the fact that it was misdirected.

It takes integrity and humility to admit when your wrong. (OK, insert comments about me being wrong on the Prop 8 subject matter here_______________)
I agree on the bold statement.

My comment was not directed to you, just a general observation.

If I am allowed to generalize little more, I miss times when the new poster was required to have at least 25 posts on benzworld before posting on BWOT.

But it is just me.

Again, don't take it personal.
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post #226 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 11:26 PM
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So if someone does not agree with your position they are a hater?
A question that begs more debate is your interpretation of the "natural cycle of life." Do go on about that tidbit, inquiring minds care to know. You have intrigued and beguiled us with your vast opinions. Time to come out of the closet and set the record straight for us. Thank you, dude.
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post #227 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon View Post
I agree on the bold statement.

My comment was not directed to you, just a general observation.

If I am allowed to generalize little more, I miss times when the new poster was required to have at least 25 posts on benzworld before posting on BWOT.

But it is just me.

Again, don't take it personal.
No worries.

Oh wait this is my 25th post. What a coincidence.
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post #228 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 11:52 PM
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Rather than escalate this conversation unnecessarily, let me ask you whether or not you believe in the Bible as the inerrant word of God?
Here is my belief. I consider myself strong minded, fairly intelligent(not a scholar) and a Christian. I was not raised a Christian and nor was I interested in hearing anything the bible beaters had to offer.

I do believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and that it is unambiguous. Do I believe that the entire text is to be interpreted literally or that you can pull excerpts out of context to suit you own purpose. Absolutely not.
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post #229 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 12:02 AM
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Here is my belief. I consider myself strong minded, fairly intelligent(not a scholar) and a Christian. I was not raised a Christian and nor was I interested in hearing anything the bible beaters had to offer.

I do believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and that it is unambiguous. Do I believe that the entire text is to be interpreted literally or that you can pull excerpts out of context to suit you own purpose. Absolutely not.
Unfortunately, those two notions stand in some conflict. If you don't interpret literally, you or someone is twisting the meaning to suit a sense of purpose.

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post #230 of 267 (permalink) Old 05-30-2009, 12:47 AM
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A question that begs more debate is your interpretation of the "natural cycle of life." Do go on about that tidbit, inquiring minds care to know. You have intrigued and beguiled us with your vast opinions. Time to come out of the closet and set the record straight for us. Thank you, dude.
I am sure that this will be received as well as my previous comments, but what the heck its my viewpoint.
My comment about the "cycle of life" were in regard to the irrefutable need for procreation, which can only be done natually between a male and female. Male and female were designed (or evolved if that is your belief) to reproduce. The male/female combination is the only human combination that biology proves is viable.

Setting the "what about infertile straight couple" argument aside, for a same sex couples the only way to procreate (without medical assistance) would be outside of the confines of a monogamous relationship.

Hence the comment.

No no need to reiterate the "Contract between to Adults" argument as I understand that this is view of some of the individuals on this forum.
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