^ With all due respect, there are a number of points on which you're simply wrong. I'd go so far as to say a majority of the founding fathers were not Christians, but rather Deists (as can be confirmed virtually anywhere).
More specifically and to the point, they INTENTIONALLY wrote the constitution in such a way as to mandate a secular government - that means, religion would in no way be associated with the operation of our government. We would be free of influence from the church, and we would be free of an obligation to worship it, in favor of doing whatever we wanted as INDIVIDUALS.
As the first article I posted pointed out, the religious right in the US is attempting to re-write history by casting the founding fathers as a bunch of (ostensibly milquetoast) Christians who didn't want to "cause any trouble" so they decided, reluctantly, to leave the church out of government. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
The religious right is a well organized machine that wants desperately to see its will carried out by way of the law of the land, and has amassed an incredible amount of money and influence to that end. Rick Reed's name ring any bells to you?
That's what disgusts the rest of us - that Christianity as a whole seems to believe what's good for them must be good for all of us, and we won't come along willingly, they'll just get congress to make sure we're playing by their rule book.
So in response, I can say on behalf of Deists, agnostics, atheists, and the secular-minded everywhere - fuck that. You may be surprised at the size of another "silent majority" in a couple years at this rate.
Has anyone read the notes of the Conventions? To fully understand the Constitution you must read the debates on which is was drafted otherwise is there is no context.
Here is a little excerpt from the Federal Convention notes:
THURSDAY. JUNE 28th. 1787 IN CONVENTION
The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other — our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.
"In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection. — Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth — that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move — that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service —
Yep that sound like a bunch of Deist
It is not a fundamental deist belief that God exist but does not interfere with the affairs of men.
Very strange that they would not just ask, yet demand that the debates open in prayer to a God that wouldn't answer. Wait a minute that almost sounds like faith, oh deism doesnt require faith.
I do not believe in re-writing history, just reading and understanding it as it was.
The beauty of OUR Country is that you and I do have the right to choose what we believe, but neither one of us has the right or ability to re-write history.
In regard to Amendment (my appologies it was late)14, in order for this to be relavant Gay Marriage would have to be determined a RIGHT or privelidge. Currently it is not, a fact.
Drawing a link between Gay Marriage and the treatment of freed slaves is quite a stretch. No one is making Gays drink from a different fountain, ride in the back of a bus or segragating them. The whole equal protection argument is a farse. In fact, in many way Gays have more protection under than an average straight white man. If someone doesnt like me and decides to beat me with a bat (I excersise my 2nd Ammendment rights
so they better kill me) than the get one punishment. If I were Gay then the punishment would be much more stern under the current hate crimes statutes. Yep sure sounds like EQUAL PROTECTION to me.
HATE IS HATE no matter how you slice it.
Opinions are opinions, facts are facts and the pendulum still swings. We will surely not resolve it on this forum nor will it be resolved anytime soon.
Onward through the fog we go.