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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Big B View Post
Your entire "contribution" to this thread .... like many others... is to "pick" at a poster or posters because of your personal biases and prejudices.

Like I said... you judged yourself.
Please refer to post 3.

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 09:34 AM
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Now back to the subject of the thread.

Today Obama will have a press conference where he will discuss, among other things what he considers mistakes that he made in the path he chose for Gitmo.

While his endgame appears to still be intact, the legal hurdles that he is having to unwind are more than was expected. [It would be VERY interesting to see just what previous administration executive signing statements throttle some of this].

That brings us back to transparency. With Bush, even when proved wrong he plowed ahead shouting "stay the course" or "with us or against us" as a defense against folks questioning his decisions and questioning his failures and errors.

Now we have a President who, when assessing a problem that came up, just four months into his Administration decides to correct the problems and move forward. Rather than just slipstream changes into the system and hope that folks don't notice and hope that folks just think that it might take a bit longer he, instead has his Press Secretary articulate that he had made a hasty decision that had caused unintended political consequences, even though the mechanics were still sound and now is having his own press conference to address it.

Owning up to a poor decision. Accepting responsibility for the big things. Cool.

This is why I kept suggesting that it was silly to focus on the nits. The show of a man's character is with how he faces the things that are important. So while a nit was important to some of the right wing blogsphere that he flubbed the swearing in and didn't mea culpa as THEY expected, watch the same rightwing blogsphere when he does stand up and take responsibility for a decision. He will be, again eviscerated because they have no intent on being consistent, and no intent to be "fair or balanced" choosing instead to be fairly unbalanced.

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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 10:18 AM
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... So while a nit was important to some of the right wing blogsphere that he flubbed the swearing in and didn't mea culpa as THEY expected, watch the same rightwing blogsphere when he does stand up and take responsibility for a decision. He will be, again eviscerated because they have no intent on being consistent, and no intent to be "fair or balanced" choosing instead to be fairly unbalanced.
Since I was the only one to focus on the mea culpa part, I think I can safely assume this was fired in my direction.

Are we really going back here again? Have I made ANY comment on the current Gitmo situation?

The nit was only pointed out so that a trail could be traced of a series of character issues on display. Remember, he never said he was wrong for trying to put the tax challenged Daschle in his cabinet. He said he was sorry he misjudged what the reaction of Americans would be to his selection.

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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 10:35 AM
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^ Sorry Bear. I just don't think the POTUS should have made such knee-jerk political decisions just to get elected. All pols lie to get elected but this and several others are just unexcusable. It makes him a fraud that thinks OJT is acceptable for his position.
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 11:38 AM
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Since I was the only one to focus on the mea culpa part, I think I can safely assume this was fired in my direction.

Are we really going back here again? Have I made ANY comment on the current Gitmo situation?

The nit was only pointed out so that a trail could be traced of a series of character issues on display. Remember, he never said he was wrong for trying to put the tax challenged Daschle in his cabinet. He said he was sorry he misjudged what the reaction of Americans would be to his selection.
Actually it wasn't. It was intended as a comment at the very broad rightwing blogsphere that churns nits into a froth of hate which then trickles down to the partisan bickering that permeates everything.

Regarding Daschle, phrasing is important. You are suggesting that Obama KNEW that Daschle had tax issues ahead of the nom and should be required to apologize for an incorrect decision. What he said was:
Quote:
"I screwed up."

"I’ve got to own up to my mistake. Ultimately, it's important for this administration to send a message that there aren't two sets of rules — you know, one for prominent people and one for ordinary folks who have to pay their taxes," Obama said on NBC’s "Nightly News with Brian Williams."

The admission came little more than 24 hours after Obama had said he was "absolutely" committed to Daschle's confirmation as secretary of health and human services, a job in which he would taken the lead in the president's ambitious plans for the nation's health care system.

"I'm frustrated with myself, with our team. ... I'm here on television saying I screwed up,"
Obama: 'I screwed up' in Daschle withdrawal - White House- msnbc.com

So is the "trail of nits" intended to show character traits of Obama and somehow "build" a case against him or to show the minutia that suddenly became "important" once Obama became President?

Interestingly that ties fully into this transparency thread. Without the transparency and forthrightness that we have been seeing, in stark contrast to the secrecy and dubious activity of the past eight years, many of these "nits" wouldn't have even come to light. Would we have known, as examples why a candidate for a cabinet post suddenly pulled out prior to Senate confirmation hearings if the vetting process was not suddenly public?

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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 08:11 PM
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Actually it wasn't. It was intended as a comment at the very broad rightwing blogsphere that churns nits into a froth of hate which then trickles down to the partisan bickering that permeates everything.

Regarding Daschle, phrasing is important. You are suggesting that Obama KNEW that Daschle had tax issues ahead of the nom and should be required to apologize for an incorrect decision. What he said was:

Obama: 'I screwed up' in Daschle withdrawal - White House- msnbc.com

So is the "trail of nits" intended to show character traits of Obama and somehow "build" a case against him or to show the minutia that suddenly became "important" once Obama became President?

Interestingly that ties fully into this transparency thread. Without the transparency and forthrightness that we have been seeing, in stark contrast to the secrecy and dubious activity of the past eight years, many of these "nits" wouldn't have even come to light. Would we have known, as examples why a candidate for a cabinet post suddenly pulled out prior to Senate confirmation hearings if the vetting process was not suddenly public?
Why do you keep asking about Bush? I do not have to answer for him. I voted Gore in '00 and Kerry in '04. Please do not talk to me about Bush. I am talking about the current president.

As for Daschle, you are correct. Phrasing IS important. That's why I broke it down before the passage of time made it into something it was not.


Should I just Jim and bear it?


BTW, my Manager gave birth to a 3lb baby girl at 27 weeks. Mother and daughter have been doing fine. She has returned to work and her daughter is in the NICU until she is ready to come home some time in June.

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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Digmenow View Post
Why do you keep asking about Bush? I do not have to answer for him. I voted Gore in '00 and Kerry in '04. Please do not talk to me about Bush. I am talking about the current president.

As for Daschle, you are correct. Phrasing IS important. That's why I broke it down before the passage of time made it into something it was not.


Should I just Jim and bear it?


BTW, my Manager gave birth to a 3lb baby girl at 27 weeks. Mother and daughter have been doing fine. She has returned to work and her daughter is in the NICU until she is ready to come home some time in June.
Who is asking about Bush. I am showing the contrast of transparency and how some of the things that we see today, and some chose to nit pick would not have even been seen in the previous administration [see how that ties into the subject of the discussion]. Many of the nits are only avaible because of an open air policy that allows us to see in to much of what is happening. Daschle is a good example.

And by "broke it down" you parsed the comments and removed all the subjective qualifiers. Well, sorry, those are part of the comment. And when you take THAT comment, in combination with the NBC one, and the other comments made on the subject, they add up to an admission that he screwed up. It really looks like you are trying to read into it that he only changed his mind because of a perception of what folks might think. Only in parsing can one see that kind of "perception".

And very good that your manager is doing fine. I know that has been on your mind [way much more than a nit]

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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 08:29 PM
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It amused me that Mr Obama said we need to look forward while repeatedly placing blame on his predecessor.

Way to look forward.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 08:46 PM
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Bush's Gitmo Vindication
Obama still hasn't said where the worst terrorists will go.
Article
President Obama delivered a major speech yesterday on how he intends to prosecute the war on terror (or whatever it's now called), and in particular his desire to close the detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay. As rhetoric, his remarks were at pains to declare a bold new moral direction. On substance, however, the speech and other events this week look more like a vindication of the past seven years.

The President's speech came after both houses of Congress had denied his funding requests to shut down Guantanamo and relocate some of the most dangerous prisoners to the U.S. The 90-6 vote in the Senate was especially notable because all but a half-dozen Democrats opposed their own President, on that high-minded principle known as not-in-my-backyard.

So, to the idea that isolated Alcatraz Island could serve as one possible location, California's Dianne Feinstein says it is a historic landmark and instead suggests a prison in another state. But the most state-of-the-art "supermax" prison in America is in Colorado, and this week that state's new Democratic Senator, Michael Bennet, vetoed that idea; as it happens, he's running for election in 2010.

Then there is the voluble Jim Webb, who in January said Mr. Obama had offered a reasonable timeline in ordering Guantanamo closed in a year. But now the Virginia Democrat opposes closing Gitmo anytime soon while observing to ABC's George Stephanopoulos on Sunday that "We spend hundreds of millions of dollars building an appropriate facility with all security precautions in Guantanamo to try these cases. There are cases against international law." That was the Bush Administration's point all along.

Mr. Obama, for his part, still wants Gitmo closed, and he cited South Carolina Republican Lindsey Graham in saying that the idea that the detainees could not be securely held in the U.S. was "not rational." Apparently also irrational is FBI Director Robert Mueller, who this week told Congress that bringing the detainees even to U.S. prisons raised serious concerns, "from providing financing, radicalizing others, [to] the potential for individuals undertaking attacks in the United States."

Yet for all of his attacks on the Bush Administration, which he accused of making "decisions based upon fear rather than foresight," Mr. Obama stuck with his predecessor's support for military commissions, adding some procedural bells and whistles as political cover to justify his past opposition. For the record: Both the left and right, from the ACLU to Dick Cheney, now agree that the President has all but embraced the Bush policy.

Mr. Obama also pledged to release at least 50 detainees to other countries -- about one-tenth the number released under President Bush -- and added that the Administration was in "ongoing discussions" to transfer them. Good luck with that: The Europeans who were so robustly against Gitmo in the Bush years have suddenly discovered its detainees are dangerous. Meanwhile, the countries that might take them, such as Yemen, can't be trusted to prevent them from returning to the battlefield, where they can kill Americans again.

more: Bush's Gitmo Vindication - WSJ.com

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 05-21-2009, 08:52 PM
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It amused me that Mr Obama said we need to look forward while repeatedly placing blame on his predecessor.

Way to look forward.

B
I haven't found a project in the past 32 years that didn't fully require me to assess ALL the issues, problems and faults that previously existed with the system, fully articulate them to everyone who is a stakeholder and insure that everyone understands that those errors can't occur again. That has to occur while at the same time the team looks forward to fixing the problems.

If you don't do a full and thorough root cause analysis and fully inform everyone, the project is simply doomed to fail again and again.

Interesting thing about this "project" is the group of guys in the back of the conference room yelling and screaming and whining about how their way was better and that the new way can't possibly work and they really hope you fail [let's call them NeoConRushBeckHannity for short]. So, there are times that you have to keep reinforcing the conclusions of the analysis to insure that stakeholders get it.

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