So Democrats "inherited" the budget crisis? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wbain View Post
The current problem was caused by Barney Frank, and a few others, interfering with the marketplace.
You rightwingers who push this "Barney Frank" bullshit, take 2% of the problem and try to magnify it into 100% of the problem. Fucking liars.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:09 AM
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The budget is approved by Congress. Plain and Simple. Your response is in practice, taking that responsibility away from Congress and placing it in the hands of the Executive. That is "moving the ball."

The point of all of this is that the Obama administration inherited what his party gave him. That is inarguable. When it comes to spending I blame Congress 100%. I think that the Executive branch should be more responsible in their Budget proposals, but the ultimate responsibility lies with Congress.

Much like a Naval ship, if it runs aground at night and the Captain is asleep in his berth, it is not the Officer of the Deck that gets relieved, it is the Captain.

Congress likes to say that when it is beneficial to their position but they always seem to forget that when it comes to the issues such as what we are currently dealing with.

As for your comparison of AEI and MoveOn.org I disagree. I think that any objective comparison of the two would show that AEI is genuinely a "Think Tank" and MoveOn is a PAC. The difference is legion.

Kind of like a University compared to Acme Truckdriving School.
Why weren't you complaining about this when Bush was president? And how much of this spending is necessary because of the total fuck you rightwingers threw into the economy?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:18 AM
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...And how much of this spending is necessary because of the total fuck you rightwingers threw into the economy?
THAT'S a good question. The answer might not be what one would expect.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:32 AM
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I don't see any democratic Lawmakers in your list. Also, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, and Greenspan aren't responsible for approving the budget.
The mess we are in goes way beyond economy. Anyway, I am in no way stating that Democrats are not guilty as well.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:49 AM
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THAT'S a good question. The answer might not be what one would expect.




Dig, you have to admit, Bush did a very good impression of Nero and spent what little the US had on all the wrong things.

To put it in to BWOT terms think of it as getting your SS check for the month (your only income) and sending Shane and TK out together to buy the groceries and pay the electricity and gas bill for the month.......
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 09:16 AM
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Dig, you have to admit, Bush did a very good impression of Nero and spent what little the US had on all the wrong things.

To put it in to BWOT terms think of it as getting your SS check for the month (your only income) and sending Shane and TK out together to buy the groceries and pay the electricity and gas bill for the month.......
Understood but that was not the question. The question is how much will it cost to recover from their spending spree?

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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 09:29 AM
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Understood but that was not the question. The question is how much will it cost to recover from their spending spree?

How long is a piece of string........
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
The budget is approved by Congress. Plain and Simple. Your response is in practice, taking that responsibility away from Congress and placing it in the hands of the Executive. That is "moving the ball."

The point of all of this is that the Obama administration inherited what his party gave him. That is inarguable. When it comes to spending I blame Congress 100%. I think that the Executive branch should be more responsible in their Budget proposals, but the ultimate responsibility lies with Congress.

Much like a Naval ship, if it runs aground at night and the Captain is asleep in his berth, it is not the Officer of the Deck that gets relieved, it is the Captain.

Congress likes to say that when it is beneficial to their position but they always seem to forget that when it comes to the issues such as what we are currently dealing with.

As for your comparison of AEI and MoveOn.org I disagree. I think that any objective comparison of the two would show that AEI is genuinely a "Think Tank" and MoveOn is a PAC. The difference is legion.

Kind of like a University compared to Acme Truckdriving School.
OK, American Enterprise Institute with American Progress. I will let you figure the connections later.

Yes Congress approves the budget. Nobody has ever denied that. They approve the budget for whom? That seems to be the little catch. They approve the submitted budget by the Executive which submits requests for Commerce, Transportation, State, Defense, Labor, Health and Human Services, etc. All of those individual budget requests are under the Executive Branch. The two have to work as a group to make government work. It is why, no matter who is in the White House and who is in the Congress the budget is always referred to as "the President's Budget. It is why the President is the one who, upon its release to Congress "for approval" does the press conference and again at signing.
Bush's Budget Projects Deficits - washingtonpost.com

If it is the Congressional Budget, explain why it was Bush, in the press conference announcing that HE was submitting the budget? That sounds an awful lot like ownership.

McBear,
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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 11:41 AM
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In the broadest terms, the 2010 budget was already set by the previous administration. The current administration has put its fingerprints all over it making sure no new initiatives get funded that are in opposition to it's election platform. But regardless of administration, the caretaker budget is going to be about the same and Congress is expecting a caretaker budget for 2010 with some exceptions. 2011 is when a complete review of each departmental budget will be possible and when new directions across government will finally be implemented. For better and worse, the previous administration owns the first year budget of the successor government and the subsequent year is still heavily influenced.

Before taking power the present administration sent in very knowledgeable transition advance teams to hear each department pitch it's departmental mission and objectives and capabilities. They go back up their own foodchain and present the incoming administration with a skeletal description of what's going on and what meets with objectives of the incoming admin and what should be killed-off as being too imbedded with the opposition/previous admin. The incoming admin then enunciates direction and sets broad budgetary goals. Only on rare occaissions will the incoming admin order an immediate freeze on spending for a particular agency or initiative. The vast majority of programs and projects are allowed to continue for the first year of the new admin.

It starts with the White House setting policy direction for each department of gov. Each department then sets direction for each agency and each agency then aligns each cost center and tells the cost center to propose 2-3 budget scenarios along with justifications of each existing program and each proposed new initiative.

Eventually a set of spending proposal from each department floats upt to the White House for review by OMB (Old Mean Bastards) to make sure that policy and spending goals are addressed. Adjustments are made etc. Then the OMB sends it to the president and he submits it to the House of Representatives, who jealously protect their constitutional role as the originator of all spending bills.

The House will hold hearings and get OMB, department, agency and special interests to testify concerning the president's proposed budget. The House has full control over what actually gets presented to the Senate. The senate debates it and rejects it. They go into conference committee and negotiate on a final version. The House resubmits it and the Senate passes it and it goes to the Administration. It will bear a resemblance to the president's budget.

Etc.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Why weren't you complaining about this when Bush was president? And how much of this spending is necessary because of the total fuck you rightwingers threw into the economy?
Umm...I was complaining loudly and vociferously. I have said that many times Bush and the Republican Congress were spending like drunken Sailors.

I know you were too so why aren't you screaming about the spending now?

Who's John Galt.

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