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post #41 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
But explain how gravity works. What is the empirical evidence for how it works and does what it does?

You can not explain how God works and what his plan is. However you have all the "Fingerprints" all over the place. You love to talk about numbers and statistics but it is funny how that all goes out the window when you talk about the statistical chances of the proteins coming together at just the right time on a planet that the statistical probability for its placement in the Solar system is mind boggling.

You would rather believe in the slightest chance of life happening rather than an intelligent designer.

Your logic escapes examination.
Do you even KNOW the definition of empirical evidence? I don't think you do.

As for the other argument, it doesn't even make sense. You have again interwoven "god's plan" and "free will". There is a plan but whatever will be will be. Which is it. Is God really Doris Day?

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post #42 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 10:14 PM
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(Big B) Wow!

Did you think all that up by yourself Shane?

"Arrogance and religion go hand in hand"???? Funny... but you appear to be way more aggogant about being against religion that anyone who's for it here.

I am not, you need not corner me as such. I not only tolerate all religious views, but encourage their debate and need. My opinion is what I stated though, feel free to debate it instead of attack the messenger.

"You are no better than a house fly. "....... now there is one hell of a statement and if you are talking about yourself then maybe you might get some to agree with you.

I am talking about myself. I am sure some agree. This is my view; I'm sorry you can't deal with your mortality as you and everyone else is included.

By the way.... Do you ever have dreams where you wake up screaming "Help me" is a shrill voice?

No. I sleep very deeply, always have. I just need my dogs and a warm body sometimes. Simple.

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post #43 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 10:50 PM
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Ah I see. So because you choose to NOT see that God has created something that means he does not exist. Am I reading that correctly?

So you would rather not have Free will and have God's presence demonstrated to you with every footfall?
So, I hate to ask this question again but WHICH god do you believe has done all of this creating?

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post #44 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 05:12 AM Thread Starter
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I'm sorry, please show me where I said that Elisabeth Fritzl or any other victim of evil got what was coming to her.

Go back a re-read what I wrote, take the blinders off while you are at it.

I said quite plainly that there is an evil in this world. That evil victimized innocent people in order to attack our faith in God.

We can choose to have faith in God or not.

The earliest basis for Scriptural free will is of Course Adam and Eve. He gave them the ability to choose whether or not to follow his command.

Another area is Deuteronomy 30:11-19 where God set before them the possibilities of life and death, but they decide which possibilities they shall actualize. Whether the Israelite are blessed or cursed depends on what they choose to do.

God allows Evil to exist because he allows us to choose and some people choose to be evil and do evil things. That is why Elizabeth Fritzl was imprisoned and raped.
Ok, my bad. You're actually more of a Fred Phelps "God hates fags" kind of guy. Gotcha.
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post #45 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 07:53 AM
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Ok, my bad. You're actually more of a Fred Phelps "God hates fags" kind of guy. Gotcha.
Dude when have I ever said that?

Why don't you stop trying to foment hate and actually engage in the discussion?

It's funny that you should liken me to a person who hates homosexuals when you it's obvious you are a misogynist and a bigot who hates latinos.

Who's John Galt.

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post #46 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 08:12 AM
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Do you even KNOW the definition of empirical evidence? I don't think you do.

As for the other argument, it doesn't even make sense. You have again interwoven "god's plan" and "free will". There is a plan but whatever will be will be. Which is it. Is God really Doris Day?
How is it that you have such a hard time understanding that God has a plan for us and we have a choice to follow it or not?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

My whole point about gravity is that to this day we do not undertand why atoms attract each other. However, we are presented with evidence of gravity with every footfall. We accept that gravity is real because we have evidence of it in everything we do yet we do not know how it works.

God is much the same way. It just so happens that lot's of people do not like to admit that God gives us evidence of his love and indeed his existence everyday.

For someone who prides themselves on logic it seems very unlike you and Qubes as well, to not believe in God.

I forget who said it but "I don't know if there is a Heaven or a Hell but when I die I'd rather be safe than sorry." This is a good starting point for most people. Fear of something should not be the main reason for doing or not doing something. This is why Christ kept telling people over and over again that if they believed in God's power they will have eternal life.

So why wouldn't you start out with the perspective of being safe as opposed to being sorry? Why would anyone want to see the glass as half empty as opposed to half full?

This is really the basis by which you seem to be operating. You do not seem to grasp that Christ did not live to set up a new religion. Religion is a Construct of Man and hence, is imperfect and corrupt.

Christ lived to give us an example to live for. God understands our shortcomings. He knows that merely being told to do something is not going to be enough for the masses. We need examples. We need evidence (much like Gravity). This is why he gave us Christ.

It is beyond me how anyone can deny the miracles of Christ, or the power of God. Christ is the evidence that is as real as gravity.

I am sorry that you can not see it. Actually I feel pity for you that you CHOOSE not to see it.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #47 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 08:20 AM
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...I forget who said it but "I don't know if there is a Heaven or a Hell but when I die I'd rather be safe than sorry." This is a good starting point for most people. Fear of something should not be the main reason for doing or not doing something. This is why Christ kept telling people over and over again that if they believed in God's power they will have eternal life.

So why wouldn't you start out with the perspective of being safe as opposed to being sorry? Why would anyone want to see the glass as half empty as opposed to half full?...
Here's the thing about that line of reasoning. If we accept that God is all knowing, wouldn't He be able to see through that position as a hedge rather than true belief?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #48 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 08:37 AM
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God has a plan for us and we have a choice to follow it or not.
But God already ‘knows’ whether or not we’ll follow that plan; there is therefore no plan.

Anthropomorphism is a serious flaw in Christian thought – the truth of God can never be known, making religion and faith irrelevant.
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post #49 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 08:50 AM
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But God already ‘knows’ whether or not we’ll follow that plan; there is therefore no plan.
Ooo. That's good stuff.

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Anthropomorphism is a serious flaw in Christian thought – the truth of God can never be known, making religion and faith irrelevant.
Unless you accept that God occasionally reveals Himself through writings, prophets and by sending Himself in the form of His son.

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post #50 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 08:57 AM
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Unless you accept that God occasionally reveals Himself through writings, prophets and by sending Himself in the form of His son.
or via an OT poster......
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