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post #31 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:08 PM
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I am truly sorry that you feel that way. Evil is real and there are people who choose to commit evil.

You can not even provide empirical proof on how Gravity works yet you accept it.

God is much the same with me.
I KNOW that if I come off a 16 foot ladder gravity will work every time. That is not faith, that is based on evidence.

Yes there are people who choose to commit evil. But to throw 'free will' and 'choice' and all the rationalizations that christians use to justify a fully contradictory belief system is both illogical and fundamentally wrong. While you can say there is evil in the world, to assign a "cause" that a god wants folks to be able to choose between good and evil so he puts up tests or puts up contra evidence is pure rationalization.

I have no problem with folks who want to believe in Christianity. I have friends who are Priests, Ministers, Trappist Monks. But they LIVE Christianity. That means ALL of Christianity, not just the convenient parts that still lets them go to war or believe in the death penalty or lying as long as it is Republican or... . And they don't rationalize away the other parts with silliness.

Don't feel sorry that I feel that way. I am very comfortable moving well beyond christianity. It's a very big world out there and christian thought is a very narrow, myopic slice of it. I prefer to see more of the world than that, both the real and spiritual.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #32 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:21 PM
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<<<^^^>>>Actually, far bigger is the crock is the moronic islamofacists who were hijacking the planes thinking that allah would reward them.

1 Cor. 1:18 fits perfectly here.

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post #33 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:24 PM
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I am truly sorry that you feel that way. Evil is real and there are people who choose to commit evil.

You can not even provide empirical proof on how Gravity works yet you accept it.

God is much the same with me.
That's just sad. Oh yeah, and wrong -- very, very wrong. Gravitation is easily demonstrated and well understood, this by any number of empirical and falsifiable methods. I'm sorry, but you're just off your nut.

Tell you what -- pray, then jump off a cliff. You can contemplate the equivalence of god and gravity all the way down.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #34 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I KNOW that if I come off a 16 foot ladder gravity will work every time. That is not faith, that is based on evidence.

Yes there are people who choose to commit evil. But to throw 'free will' and 'choice' and all the rationalizations that christians use to justify a fully contradictory belief system is both illogical and fundamentally wrong. While you can say there is evil in the world, to assign a "cause" that a god wants folks to be able to choose between good and evil so he puts up tests or puts up contra evidence is pure rationalization.

I have no problem with folks who want to believe in Christianity. I have friends who are Priests, Ministers, Trappist Monks. But they LIVE Christianity. That means ALL of Christianity, not just the convenient parts that still lets them go to war or believe in the death penalty or lying as long as it is Republican or... . And they don't rationalize away the other parts with silliness.

Don't feel sorry that I feel that way. I am very comfortable moving well beyond christianity. It's a very big world out there and christian thought is a very narrow, myopic slice of it. I prefer to see more of the world than that, both the real and spiritual.
But explain how gravity works. What is the empirical evidence for how it works and does what it does?

You can not explain how God works and what his plan is. However you have all the "Fingerprints" all over the place. You love to talk about numbers and statistics but it is funny how that all goes out the window when you talk about the statistical chances of the proteins coming together at just the right time on a planet that the statistical probability for its placement in the Solar system is mind boggling.

You would rather believe in the slightest chance of life happening rather than an intelligent designer.

Your logic escapes examination.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #35 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:28 PM
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pray, then jump off a cliff. You can contemplate the equivalence of god and gravity all the way down.

GermanStar.. priceless ... just absolutely priceless.

can I find out where this experiment will happen.

I'd like to YouTube it
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post #36 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
That's just sad. Oh yeah, and wrong -- very, very wrong. Gravitation is easily demonstrated and well understood, this by any number of empirical and falsifiable methods. I'm sorry, but you're just off your nut.

Tell you what -- pray, then jump off a cliff. You can contemplate the equivalence of god and gravity on your way down.
Actually you are wrong.

Please explain how it works if I am so incorrect. Should be simple. Why do atoms attract?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #37 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:46 PM
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Gravitation is as predictable and demonstrable as anything you are likely to encounter. To understand it, I'll direct you to study general relativity and the effects of space time curvature, followed by a primer on M-Theory. In fact, one of the primary reasons string theory had been so heartily embraced by the quantum community, was it's mathematical demonstration of long since hypothesized graviton particles.

But you're missing the point. 'Why' does not mitigate 'is'. The fact that we can never conclusively demonstrate the origin of our universe (since absolute proof can only be achieved from beyond our universe), does not negate its existence. I can demonstrate the existence of gravity by any number of empirical and falsifiable methods, no one can do likewise in regard to god. There is no equivalence of any kind on any level, and your suggestion that there is serves as your ticket to lala-land. Do have a lovely voyage.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #38 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Gravitation is as predictable and demonstrable as anything you are likely to encounter. To understand it, I'll direct you to study general relativity and the effects of space time curvature, followed by a primer on M-Theory. In fact, one of the primary reasons string theory had been so heartily embraced by the quantum community, was it's mathematical demonstration of long since hypothesized graviton particles.

But you're missing the point. 'Why' does not mitigate 'is'. The fact that we can never conclusively demonstrate the origin of our universe (since absolute proof can only be achieved from beyond our universe), does not negate its existence. I can demonstrate the existence of gravity by any number of empirical and falsifiable methods, no one can do likewise in regard to god. There is no equivalence of any kind on any level, and your suggestion that there is serves as your ticket to lala-land. Do have a lovely voyage.
Ah I see. So because you choose to NOT see that God has created something that means he does not exist. Am I reading that correctly?

So you would rather not have Free will and have God's presence demonstrated to you with every footfall?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #39 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:56 PM
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Ah I see. So because you choose to NOT see that God has created something that means he does not exist. Am I reading that correctly?

So you would rather not have Free will and have God's presence demonstrated to you with every footfall?
You apparently have no grasp whatsoever of the meaning of the term "empirical evidence", which you introduced into this topic. If you aren't embarrassed yet, you probably will be when the effects wear off in the morning.

In the meantime, Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #40 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-15-2009, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
You apparently have no grasp whatsoever of the meaning of the term "empirical evidence", which you introduced into this topic. If you aren't embarrassed yet, you probably will be when the effects wear off in the morning.

In the meantime, Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm sorry but is there a tea pot between atoms causing them to attract?

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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