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post #171 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:12 PM
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^ So, how many non-humans do you compete with in the work force?

Keep it up Stu, when you hit this side of the world, give me a call.........

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post #172 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:16 PM
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You might want to grab some whiteout and get to work. More than man has reasoning skills.
You may want to clarify which animals have our capacity for abstract thought. Name one that can articulate the existence of God.
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post #173 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:18 PM
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GS,
I assume you are questioning if Heaven is reserved for humans? The Bible is silent regarding an afterlife for animals. Everything in the Bible points to the reasoning skills of man that were given by God (only to man) as a method of understanding. No other creature posesses this unique quality. This gift comes freely, but does not come without responsibility.
You don't know that. There are creatures of substantial intellect on our planet with a greater brain mass than ours and an indeterminate capacity to reason. Yes, we are unique in many ways, but so are all creatures.

And in fact, the NT suggests that salvation is achieved exclusively through faith, faith that is out of necessity learned via communication with humans. That excludes any creature on our planet that cannot communicate with humans as well as other humans can. In effect, salvation is reserved for a subset of a subset, based upon who or what he/she/it is able to communicate with. And then there is Genesis 1:26-28.
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Not only does a gibbon not think about God, it doesn't care as it doesn't have the mental capacity. God gave the gibbon absolutely no responsibility and requires nothing from it in return. God gave you his Son and the wisdom to reason.
What great mental capacity is required for faith? Is faith really the hallmark of a superior intellect?

What do wolf gods value? Can wolves not achieve salvation by running fast or by virtue of their superior perceptual abilities? Who is to say? OK, Shane, I suppose.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #174 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:36 PM
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GS,
I assume you are questioning if Heaven is reserved for humans? The Bible is silent regarding an afterlife for animals. Everything in the Bible points to the reasoning skills of man that were given by God (only to man) as a method of understanding. No other creature posesses this unique quality. This gift comes freely, but does not come without responsibility.

Not only does a gibbon not think about God, it doesn't care as it doesn't have the mental capacity. God gave the gibbon absolutely no responsibility and requires nothing from it in return. God gave you his Son and the wisdom to reason.
Nobody knows anything truthfully, but please, you guys are starting to look bad. Open your eyes, mcbear is right or atleast logical and making points, the bible was written by, lets be frank, novice humans, just started walking on the big legs compared to us! It contradicts and is sometimes illogical. This is not to say they had no basis...just reality. It is obviously a tool for profit and control in todays society.
I would say keep on doing your thang religious people, but just don't try to debate it against the likes of folk like MCbear. Real reco. real, and MCbear looks real familiar! You killed me with the Star Wars example, sad but so true. Facts are facts.

Stereotypes are never 100% false!

"Life is fraud when your fake, but it's so hard when your real."
"A lie has speed, but truth has endurance." -Edgar J. Mohn
"What up black cop, every brother ain't no brother." -Styles P
"Fat people on elevators are self explanatory and count as two for safety reasons."
"...and if you're going to die for a cause let be cause I was high, and they tried to take the Benz!"


G's Up...
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post #175 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:48 PM
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You don't know that. Yes I do. There are creatures of substantial intellect on our planet with a greater brain mass than ours and an indeterminate capacity to reason. Limited intellect and capacity to reason. Mimic is not reason. Yes, we are unique in many ways, but so are all creatures. Not like us.

And in fact, the NT suggests that salvation is achieved exclusively through faith, Not an entirely true statement. faith that is out of necessity learned via communication with humans. That excludes any creature on our planet that cannot communicate with humans as well as other humans can. True. In effect, salvation is reserved for a subset of a subset, based upon who or what he/she/it is able to communicate with. And then there is Genesis 1:26-28. Which says nothing about animals getting to heaven.

What great mental capacity is required for faith? Human capacity. The ability to accept Christ as your Savior. Is faith really the hallmark of a superior intellect? One hallmark.
What do wolf gods value? No such thing. Can wolves not achieve salvation by running fast or by virtue of their superior perceptual abilities? Nope. Who is to say? God. OK, Shane, I suppose.
...
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post #176 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:50 PM
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Nobody knows anything truthfully, but please, you guys are starting to look bad. Open your eyes, mcbear is right or atleast logical and making points, the bible was written by, lets be frank, novice humans, just started walking on the big legs compared to us! It contradicts and is sometimes illogical. This is not to say they had no basis...just reality. It is obviously a tool for profit and control in todays society.
I would say keep on doing your thang religious people, but just don't try to debate it against the likes of folk like MCbear. Real reco. real, and MCbear looks real familiar! You killed me with the Star Wars example, sad but so true. Facts are facts.
Stay out of the deep end.
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post #177 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:56 PM
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Wolves repsect other's right to their own opinions. It is our flexibility that keeps us around. If you don't like this, we eat you.
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post #178 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 01:02 PM
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^ I can't tell you how much that sounds like where I work.
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post #179 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 01:14 PM
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Falling back on hierarchy again. I appreciate that you're trying not to, but you cannot help yourself. As a human, you value intellect over other abilities/skills. It is an aspect of our greatest strength, yet it is not that strength, in and of itself. If we had achieved dominance over our environment as a result of great speed or physical strength or perceptual ability, your divinity would shift thusly.

Before humans reach the age of 3, we are completely incapable of considering our surroundings from a vantage point other than our own. As an example, a small child sits directly in front of a television, blocking everyone's view in the process. If ordered to move, she will move, but never grasp that others were unable to see exactly what she saw. Perhaps it's time to broaden your perspective.

While you're at it, please explain how you've come to understand cetacean cognitive abilities better than that part of our scientific community, which has ponderously studied the topic for decades. It is a difficult field, filled with misconstrued data and experimental anthropomorphisms. I'm always anxious to learn. BTW, Neanderthal also had substantially greater brain mass than modern humans. To whose god did Neanderthal pray? Were they rendered extinct by your god?

Finally, please suggest a means of achieving canid immortality. I believe the Bible precludes such a possibility.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #180 of 242 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 01:19 PM
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...
Really, stay out of the deep end. It was good advice.

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Limited intellect and capacity to reason. Mimic is not reason.
That could describe Glenn Beck yet, most consider him human.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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