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post #71 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 09:56 PM
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No. The quip in question was not funny though, unless you are amused by the suggestion that the moderators, and mcbear specifically, are being accused of misusing their authority as moderators to further their point of view on the board. In fact the whole thing was not only not funny it was sleazy and cheap. But that can be amusing to a particular kind of individual.

I didn't think it was funny. Should I expect a PM from a different moderator now?

Jim
Let me check with ed and see if he's planning on sending one. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on it.

As for sleazy and cheap, quit looking in my wardrobe.

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post #72 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 06:49 AM
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I would agree Pelosi has been ineffective in the role of Speaker of the House. The Democrats need to replace her for that reason alone, without attributing the reasons for her ineffective leadership - as much of it is unearned. But the issues before the country are serious and need to be addressed quickly and without the wasted time associated with fending off bullshit, like the lack of substance that is the subject of this thread. The issue was moot at the time of the briefings - the victims had already been viciously tortured and Pelosi had zero to do with either the policy or its implementation. This is a distraction. Enjoy it while you can, all of you who are more concerned with obfuscation when the subject of holding those accountable for establishing and implementing a national policy of torturing humans being held captive by America, than addressing the real and serious issues we face as a nation.

This will do little more than strengthen the resolve to delve into more of the sordid details of who instigated the changes to American policy on torture, who wrote the documents, who promulgated them and who implemented the policy, followed by prosecutions and sentencing. It will take a long time and make the Abu Graihb photos seem like a fart in church. But, hey, it seems to be what the right wants - a big distracting, drawn out prosecution of the Bush Administration officials, including Cheney and Bush, as well as the CIA management involved in cooking the intelligence and enabling the Dicky and Rummy show to get us mired in Iraq.

Some lefties will be at your side in this national expose. I was hoping we would immediately focus on what needs to be done to get America back on track, and, once that was accomplished, go back over the lessons to be learned from the past 8 years of ignominy for America - holding those responsible to account for their failures if the lessons learned prescribe such actions. But not immediately. Now this peculiar alliance between the right and some on the left will take center stage and we will sit through it while America is not healed.

Jim
It would appear that, now that culpability has spread over the line, you are advocating setting the issue aside. Elected officials who stood by and did nothing while the practice continued are culpable and should be removed by some means (elections, prosecutions if it is determined to be illegal). Torture is despicable and a tarnish on our nation's values. An elected official with the power to do so should have initiated actions to have it stopped the same day they learned it was occurring and have no business in positions of leadership if they failed to do so. All of them.

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post #73 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 06:51 AM
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Let me check with ed and see if he's planning on sending one. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on it.

As for sleazy and cheap, quit looking in my wardrobe.
Nah, Jim's cool. His sense of humor is different from yours, subtlety isn't his game.

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post #74 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 11:46 AM
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What some folks don't see is that I always copy other mods whenever i send a PM. That way everyone knows just how few PMs I actually send out and for what reasons.

So ed and dig would know if a PM had come anyone's way and why. That keeps a nice audit trail and check and balance system in place. Cool, huh?

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post #75 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
It would appear that, now that culpability has spread over the line, you are advocating setting the issue aside. Elected officials who stood by and did nothing while the practice continued are culpable and should be removed by some means (elections, prosecutions if it is determined to be illegal). Torture is despicable and a tarnish on our nation's values. An elected official with the power to do so should have initiated actions to have it stopped the same day they learned it was occurring and have no business in positions of leadership if they failed to do so. All of them.
I was supporting Obama's effort to get over this issue as quickly as possible. The first step, ending the practices, has been taken. However, if the issue can't be let go of at this stage, I believe the first and most severe dose of justice that should be meted out should be directed at those who instituted the change that resulted in Americans becoming monsters who tortured those they held in captivity as a matter of official policy.

And, if there is evidence that others hid behind the rules of classified information and did nothing to stop the torture practices that had been implemented for over a year before the briefings were held, they should be outed for the cowards they are. Those others could include Pelosi and other Democrats that may have been briefed and did nothing, as well as Republicans who also may have been briefed, and obviously did nothing. I find it amusing that only Pelosi is the target of this venom. It would seem that if you find torture ok today, then it is ok to have kept silent when you were briefed.

Jim
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post #76 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 09:36 PM
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It would seem that if you find torture ok today, then it is ok to have kept silent when you were briefed.

Jim
When you explain it like that, it DOES sound kind of logical.

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post #77 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 09:45 PM
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It would seem that if you find torture ok today, then it is ok to have kept silent when you were briefed.

Jim
But how can one support Limbaugh's "Failure at ALL COSTS" Philosophy if logic and rational thought are introduced into the equation. There has to be a different standard for Pelosi, afterall, she has a cute nickname on all the talk shows and blogs.

Personally, I think she needs to be replaced as Speaker, but certainly not for this event. There are too many contradictions in the "evidence" against her. This is a big red herring to distract and try and make the Administration fail.

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post #78 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
No. The quip in question was not funny though, unless you are amused by the suggestion that the moderators, and mcbear specifically, are being accused of misusing their authority as moderators to further their point of view on the board. In fact the whole thing was not only not funny it was sleazy and cheap. But that can be amusing to a particular kind of individual.

I didn't think it was funny. Should I expect a PM from a different moderator now?

Jim
So I take it that you didn't think it was funny--whatever it was.

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post #79 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
No. The quip in question was not funny though, unless you are amused by the suggestion that the moderators, and mcbear specifically, are being accused of misusing their authority as moderators to further their point of view on the board. In fact the whole thing was not only not funny it was sleazy and cheap. But that can be amusing to a particular kind of individual.

I didn't think it was funny. Should I expect a PM from a different moderator now?

Jim
Sorry, despite a handsome offer, it seems he's still unavailable.


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post #80 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 10:32 PM
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Sorry, despite a handsome offer, it seems he's still unavailable.
Thank goodness. I would run out of bowtie jokes after a few months.

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