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post #101 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 04:31 PM
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I'm sorry you don't differentiate between fantasy and behaviour?

Funny, the law does.

Thank you former Rep. Foley.
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post #102 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 04:51 PM
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I insinuate nothing. Your position is obvious, but if you believe it's not, please, do tell. Allow me to quote you "Christians are intolerant, as evidenced by the source cited in the original post." Seems what? A "broad swath" type of statement no? Are you sure you're not a closet conservative? Finally, asking you what you think any other religion would think or do in this situation smears any of them in what way? Is it that you just don't like the answer? I've got an industrial sized tube of KY for you to help get that head back where it belongs when you're all done making an ass of yourself. Take your time.
Wow man, we've hit a hot button for you haven't we.

IF you care to do some recent searches on my posts, you'll see that my condemnation of religions is universal. I'm not a guy who just wants to stir the shit with Christians...I'm on record as saying religions are all evil. All of them. I think I used the term "tool(s) of Satan" on more than one occasion. And I stand behind that.

Secondly, if it would help you to understand, I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to find at least one article per day that would cast Christians in an intolerant light. It's not a broad swath statement if you can find countless individual cases to prove the point. But there's no point in that. It goes without saying. Your own words have confirmed it, so I'm not sure why it's something you still seem to want to debate.
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post #103 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 06:02 PM
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We agree that religions are basically evil.
You cannot make the same statement of all churches or christians. The funny part is you try to group them all together, and that is intolerant.
Also if you want to challenge us on the amount of Christian vs secular intolerance, you will most definitely lose, even though christian intolerance is readily pointed out and secular is not.
Something always comes to mind when reading your posts. The source of any corruption, disarray , or evil is not from God. So if it is from the other side (which I believe) the church is the first target of Satan, since it takes a stance against satanic influences.
See the logic? Satan doesn't always lose.
As far as the article of the porn, it is another trivial bashing point in trying to find fault in something. We're all human with human failings. we correct and go on (hopefully)

Aardvark.
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post #104 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 07:00 PM
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It was, and still is, the liberal mindset that takes us farther and farther from the Christian principles that this country was founded on. It has everything to do with this way of thinking.
Can we finally get this silliness out of the way. This country was not founded on Christian principles. Our Founding Fathers were quite dubious of religious zealotry and were quite specific in NOT giving religion a seat in our government.

As examples.

Benjamin Franklin (Founding Father, scientist, inventor, philosopher) - Deist
George Washington (1st pres.) - Deist
John Adams (2nd pres.) - Unitarian
Thomas Jefferson (3rd pres.) - Deist
James Madison (4th pres.) - Deist
James Monroe (5th pres.) - Deist
John Quincy Adams (6th pres.) - Unitarian

Deism

You will notice from the religions and beliefs of many of the leading Founding Fathers and early leaders of the U.S., that most were of the Deist beliefs.

Deism is a philosophy that rejects supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and asserts that God does not intervene with the affairs of human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, deists see as man-made fictions by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

The Constitution does not state the term God anywhere and the reference to “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence is often taken out of context. The Founding Fathers wrote “Creator” in the famous, “all men are created equal and that we are endowed from our Creator with certain unalienable Rights among them Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness” to mean God, but not the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition of a human-like person who sits in judgment over his flock.

Deism developed out of the Age of Enlightenment in Europe when there was a questioning of religious scriptures among leading intellectuals and philosophers. Deism virtually died out around the end of the 19th century because it primarily appealed to intellectuals, the highly educated, and philosophers and not the masses.

The main principles of Deism are the rejection of books that claim to be the revealed word of God (such as the Bible, the Qur’an, etc.), the rejection of stories of miracles and prophecies, and the rejection of the account of creation in Genesis (thus, effectively making Deism compatible to the theory of evolution).

As an almost non-theistic religion or philosophy that rejects the creationism of Genesis, Deism actually has more in common with the Eastern religions of Buddhism (The Dhamma), Daoism, and Confucianism; than it does to the big three Western religions of the Judeo-Christian tradition.


In God We Trust was not minted on coinage until Civil War era and printed on paper money until the mid 20th Century.

McBear,
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post #105 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Can we finally get this silliness out of the way. This country was not founded on Christian principles. Our Founding Fathers were quite dubious of religious zealotry and were quite specific in NOT giving religion a seat in our government.

As examples.

Benjamin Franklin (Founding Father, scientist, inventor, philosopher) - Deist
George Washington (1st pres.) - Deist
John Adams (2nd pres.) - Unitarian
Thomas Jefferson (3rd pres.) - Deist
James Madison (4th pres.) - Deist
James Monroe (5th pres.) - Deist
John Quincy Adams (6th pres.) - Unitarian

Deism

You will notice from the religions and beliefs of many of the leading Founding Fathers and early leaders of the U.S., that most were of the Deist beliefs.

Deism is a philosophy that rejects supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and asserts that God does not intervene with the affairs of human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, deists see as man-made fictions by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

The Constitution does not state the term God anywhere and the reference to “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence is often taken out of context. The Founding Fathers wrote “Creator” in the famous, “all men are created equal and that we are endowed from our Creator with certain unalienable Rights among them Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness” to mean God, but not the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition of a human-like person who sits in judgment over his flock.

Deism developed out of the Age of Enlightenment in Europe when there was a questioning of religious scriptures among leading intellectuals and philosophers. Deism virtually died out around the end of the 19th century because it primarily appealed to intellectuals, the highly educated, and philosophers and not the masses.

The main principles of Deism are the rejection of books that claim to be the revealed word of God (such as the Bible, the Qur’an, etc.), the rejection of stories of miracles and prophecies, and the rejection of the account of creation in Genesis (thus, effectively making Deism compatible to the theory of evolution).

As an almost non-theistic religion or philosophy that rejects the creationism of Genesis, Deism actually has more in common with the Eastern religions of Buddhism (The Dhamma), Daoism, and Confucianism; than it does to the big three Western religions of the Judeo-Christian tradition.


In God We Trust was not minted on coinage until Civil War era and printed on paper money until the mid 20th Century.
you will make baby jesus cry saying stuff like that....

Ross

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post #106 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 07:06 PM
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Newt for President!
Cool, would we expect him to have a first lady and a first mistress at this point? And will someone be cooking the books for him or will he be doing that himself again?

And all the "Climate Change is a Hoax" folks are going to have some serious back peddling to do, or maybe he will...it could go either way.

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post #107 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 07:08 PM
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I can't believe that this Joe the Dumber thread is 10 pages long now.
It seems to have well...evolved. Although technically only half the folks believe that is possible.

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post #108 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 10:44 PM
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Q
We agree that religions are basically evil.
You cannot make the same statement of all churches or christians. The funny part is you try to group them all together, and that is intolerant.
Also if you want to challenge us on the amount of Christian vs secular intolerance, you will most definitely lose, even though christian intolerance is readily pointed out and secular is not.
Something always comes to mind when reading your posts. The source of any corruption, disarray , or evil is not from God. So if it is from the other side (which I believe) the church is the first target of Satan, since it takes a stance against satanic influences.
See the logic? Satan doesn't always lose.
As far as the article of the porn, it is another trivial bashing point in trying to find fault in something. We're all human with human failings. we correct and go on (hopefully)

Aardvark.
Aardvark,

The issue is organized religion, a concept that includes, unfortunately, churches, that is the source of much evil. A religion you practice on your own can really only affect you. It is when large numbers of people gather, and a politician emerges to manipulate them as their leader that the whole private and intense relationship with god gets distorted - the relationship has to be "blessed" or otherwise endorsed with appropriate rituals, including giving a weekly payment to the leader so he can buy gold decorations for the place of worship, and a car and a house and attend conferences and plaster slogans of political hot button subjects in the name of the church on bumper stickers and billboards, and influence elected officials, including to be intolerant of private life styles of citizens or to conduct crusades against other people with different religious beliefs, and so on and so forth - while selling forgiveness for mortal sins to the wealthy - that is when bad things are done in the name of god.

Intolerance for that kind of behavior is, from my perspective, justified. Your religion should be your private means for relating to your maker. When you use it to tell me what to do, I get intolerant. If you didn't do that I would be very tolerant. In fact, if I can be tolerant of gay life styles, why would you think I can't be tolerant of religious lifestyles? Just like gay lifestyles, if it began to get organized and grow enough political power that the state was telling me I had to suck a dick once a month or in some other manner include some kind of acts that honored gay sex regularly, I would become intolerant of gay lifestyles. Right now we have religious groups trying to restrict the effectiveness of our education system by "teaching" the opinion of creationists is roughly equivalent to the science behind evolution. We have a Pope of the Catholic Church making noise about US political leaders being barred from receiving communion because of their stance on abortion, but a strange silence on the subject of torture, as if being anti abortion gives you a free ticket to torture in god's eyes. That is organized religion interfering with politics - abuse of power by the organized religion in my view.

So, I guess my view on the intolerance issue is, my intolerance of your and others' religion and churches is a direct result of your and others' religions and churches trying to control my life by imposing your and others' religious based intolerance on me, and others who do not subscribe to your and others' religions and churches. What you do in private with your god is your business and if it held between you and your god, I have nothing to be intolerant of or about.

Jim
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post #109 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 11:15 PM
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Aardvark,

The issue is organized religion, a concept that includes, unfortunately, churches, that is the source of much evil. A religion you practice on your own can really only affect you. It is when large numbers of people gather, and a politician emerges to manipulate them as their leader that the whole private and intense relationship with god gets distorted - the relationship has to be "blessed" or otherwise endorsed with appropriate rituals, including giving a weekly payment to the leader so he can buy gold decorations for the place of worship, and a car and a house and attend conferences and plaster slogans of political hot button subjects in the name of the church on bumper stickers and billboards, and influence elected officials, including to be intolerant of private life styles of citizens or to conduct crusades against other people with different religious beliefs, and so on and so forth - while selling forgiveness for mortal sins to the wealthy - that is when bad things are done in the name of god.

Intolerance for that kind of behavior is, from my perspective, justified. Your religion should be your private means for relating to your maker. When you use it to tell me what to do, I get intolerant. If you didn't do that I would be very tolerant. In fact, if I can be tolerant of gay life styles, why would you think I can't be tolerant of religious lifestyles? Just like gay lifestyles, if it began to get organized and grow enough political power that the state was telling me I had to suck a dick once a month or in some other manner include some kind of acts that honored gay sex regularly, I would become intolerant of gay lifestyles. Right now we have religious groups trying to restrict the effectiveness of our education system by "teaching" the opinion of creationists is roughly equivalent to the science behind evolution. We have a Pope of the Catholic Church making noise about US political leaders being barred from receiving communion because of their stance on abortion, but a strange silence on the subject of torture, as if being anti abortion gives you a free ticket to torture in god's eyes. That is organized religion interfering with politics - abuse of power by the organized religion in my view.

So, I guess my view on the intolerance issue is, my intolerance of your and others' religion and churches is a direct result of your and others' religions and churches trying to control my life by imposing your and others' religious based intolerance on me, and others who do not subscribe to your and others' religions and churches. What you do in private with your god is your business and if it held between you and your god, I have nothing to be intolerant of or about.

Jim
+1

Another well rounded piece Jim.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #110 of 161 (permalink) Old 05-09-2009, 03:13 AM
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No problem then Jim.
Separate me from religion and we get along. Now this doesn't mean that I don't take on some of organized religions views, especially if they are in alignment with Biblical teachings, so there we may or may not disagree. It is not even a choice I can make, since I do need to support the views of Biblical teachings. Do I need to push them on you? Yes to a degree, just as you think you must establish laws against my views. Fair is fair.
If it takes an organization, a PAC or a lobbyist to do it, I will back it, if biblical, just as if you were an NRA member trying to support your views. There is little difference. (and by the way I am a NRA member). You see we are effected by intolerance as you are, and we deserve the same considerations as you....Like it or not!!!
The definition of Marriage, abortion, and many other issues effect us directly and we deserve to voice our opinion, just as you. If your side is outnumbered, it is called a "vote". One wins one loses. Chips fall where they will.

Thinking different from you doesn't make me intolerant, but just different.
Be careful tying me to religions just because at times my views meld with religious factions. I am a free thinker, but am tied to a standard, wether I like it or not, because I decided on Gods writings as a template for my lifestyle.
That was MY "Free Wil"l to choose that direction. I'm fine with the choice since most I see as positive in my life. The rest I have no choice. God decides , not me.
I will fight and back Gods principles, not the churches.

Aardvark
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