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post #71 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Having known the dirt poor and billionaires, I find that the dirt poor tend to not have a desire to "put" anything on anybody. I cannot always say that about the very affluent that I know.

One of the most responsible people that I know works three hard jobs, keeps her grandkids because her own kids are not able to right now but she made sure, through working her ass off that they all went to college. Due to keeping food on the table for six she can't afford health insurance in any form. Tell her that she doesn't have personal responsibility to her face and only your dental insurance will reach its capacity very quickly, if you are lucky.
You're making his point. By superbly demonstrating personal responsibility, her kids went to college. The grandkids will gain from her values and guidance. One can assume that her kids now are smart enough to carry health insurance or will soon. Even if she personally doesn't have health insurance, I'd say she succeeded very well. The rewards of personal responsibility do not have to come in the current generation.

What about your ancestors, Bare, tell us about their health insurance.

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--Hillary Rodham Clinton
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post #72 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Having known the dirt poor and billionaires, I find that the dirt poor tend to not have a desire to "put" anything on anybody. I cannot always say that about the very affluent that I know.

One of the most responsible people that I know works three hard jobs, keeps her grandkids because her own kids are not able to right now but she made sure, through working her ass off that they all went to college. Due to keeping food on the table for six she can't afford health insurance in any form. Tell her that she doesn't have personal responsibility to her face and only your dental insurance will reach its capacity very quickly, if you are lucky.
I've never known a billionaire (that I know of), but I have lived and worked with poor people in lots of places. People who live in the USA and call themselves 'poor' are only poor relative to other Americans. Compared to the per capita planetary population the 'poor' in the USA are in the upper middle class. You know, running water, sewage, electricity.

Who is going to care for the people of Earth who are truly, desperately poor? Why not the taxpayers of the USA? Aren't we all citizens of the Earth, first? The concept of national governments is passe'. Everybody on the planet should have equal share of the planet's resources. Let's start here at home and lead by example.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #73 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 07:27 PM
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I'm thinking this could be a good idea, but only for those people who have no outstanding medical debt.

Get your debt clear first, then we can talk about "equality".
Medical costs are the primary reason for filing bankruptcy; that's where the debt gets settled.

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post #74 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 07:29 PM
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I've never known a billionaire (that I know of), but I have lived and worked with poor people in lots of places. People who live in the USA and call themselves 'poor' are only poor relative to other Americans. Compared to the per capita planetary population the 'poor' in the USA are in the upper middle class. You know, running water, sewage, electricity.

Who is going to care for the people of Earth who are truly, desperately poor? Why not the taxpayers of the USA? Aren't we all citizens of the Earth, first? The concept of national governments is passe'. Everybody on the planet should have equal share of the planet's resources. Let's start here at home and lead by example.
Obama will get around to it; it was one of his campaign promises to fund the UN program with a percent of our GDP.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

God Bless the America we're trying to create.
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post #75 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I've never known a billionaire (that I know of), but I have lived and worked with poor people in lots of places. People who live in the USA and call themselves 'poor' are only poor relative to other Americans. Compared to the per capita planetary population the 'poor' in the USA are in the upper middle class. You know, running water, sewage, electricity.

Who is going to care for the people of Earth who are truly, desperately poor? Why not the taxpayers of the USA? Aren't we all citizens of the Earth, first? The concept of national governments is passe'. Everybody on the planet should have equal share of the planet's resources. Let's start here at home and lead by example.
"You don't look different but you have changed"...

Are you the same Bot we knew and loved?

You are posting total bullshit (and you are very well aware of that bullshit) just to defend your nondefendable points..

You understand very well that our existing so called world order would totally collapse in no time, don't you?
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post #76 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon View Post
"You don't look different but you have changed"...

Are you the same Bot we knew and loved?

You are posting total bullshit (and you are very well aware of that bullshit) just to defend your nondefendable points..

You understand very well that our existing so called world order would totally collapse in no time, don't you?
Play with me here.

Why would it collapse? We have about half of the world's wealth. Why shouldn't the wealthiest people on the planet share their wealth instead of living and playing in safe, pampered opulence? (as compared to the rest of the planet). Isn't it our responsibility as a people of means to assist the less fortunate?

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #77 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:07 PM
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You're making his point. By superbly demonstrating personal responsibility, her kids went to college. The grandkids will gain from her values and guidance. One can assume that her kids now are smart enough to carry health insurance or will soon. Even if she personally doesn't have health insurance, I'd say she succeeded very well. The rewards of personal responsibility do not have to come in the current generation.

What about your ancestors, Bare, tell us about their health insurance.
No, his point was that those without personal responsibility passed that responsibility for things like insurance to others. Keep up with the topic.

My parents were both Union so they paid into a union plan for the 44 years that they worked. Many of my other relatives have gone a lifetime without insurance. I have an uncle who was not able, in Tennessee to have a child delivered in a hospital because he still owed for the last one. He was a mechanic who could not afford insurance. My father paid for the kid's delivery in Kentucky. I have seen Bethlehem Steel insurance totally go away, when they bankrupted, leaving thousands of employees without any insurance, no matter what their condition. A great uncle simply died as a result, broke, at home sick and unable to afford care.

I have watched coal miners completely broken by the age of 40, unable to stand up straight or lift 10 pounds, fully disabled and folks tell them to "just go out and get another job", not knowing that nobody hires broken down men. They live on $12K a year and will until they die which will be, with black lung about 60.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #78 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:11 PM
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Play with me here.

Why would it collapse? We have about half of the world's wealth. Why shouldn't the wealthiest people on the planet share their wealth instead of living and playing in safe, pampered opulence? (as compared to the rest of the planet). Isn't it our responsibility as a people of means to assist the less fortunate?
Kidding right? Not aware of our $10T debt right? We are no longer the wealthiest nation on the planet, we are the worst world debtor. Our only hope is our debt is too big, if they let us down it will bring them down as well.

Hi "Bot", welcome to BWOT.

Last edited by maine_coon; 05-19-2009 at 08:13 PM.
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post #79 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I've never known a billionaire (that I know of), but I have lived and worked with poor people in lots of places. People who live in the USA and call themselves 'poor' are only poor relative to other Americans. Compared to the per capita planetary population the 'poor' in the USA are in the upper middle class. You know, running water, sewage, electricity.
As an interesting footnote to that, a section of Evarts Kentucky just this month got word that it got a piece of the stimulus package that allowed it to get city water, instead of the chemical laden well water from mine runoff that they have been drinking for a century and that, within a few years will have sewers. They are projecting that Harlan County will have 98% running water and 92% sewer by 2013.

And almost everyone has electricity now, except for a couple of hollows.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #80 of 193 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon View Post
Kidding right? Not aware of our $10T debt right? We no longer the wealthiest nation on the planet, we are the worst world debtor. Our only hope is our debt is too big, if they let us down it will bring them down as well.

Hi "Bot", welcome to BWOT.
Thanks for the welcome.

When I use the word, "you" I am using it in the colloquial for "one." As in "one may believe". Sometimes people get confused by precision as much as they get confused by imprecision.

I'm willing to explore the notion of responsibility. My personal belief is that I own my own body. My theory is that ownership entails responsibility of that thing which is owned.

From this theory I believe that the choice of whether or not to terminate a pregnancy or to self-terminate are the sole concern of the one who is pregnant and the one who wishes to suicide. Also, drug use.

By the same argument, I must not deprive you of the right of ownership of your own body. If you wish to puff a marijuana cigarette or inject unknown substances into your circulatory system, be my ever-lovin' guest. You want to smoke terbaccy? Roll'em.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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