Churchgoers more likely to back torture - Page 9 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #81 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-02-2009, 10:42 PM
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post #82 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 10:25 AM
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The whole point is still the willful misrepresentation of people of faith. In this instance "those who are church goers."

The article seeks to connect the two as causal when there is no evidence of one causing the other.

I think that is what most people here have and issue with. That and the consistent pattern of those on the left continually trying to assert that people of faith are brutish, dim, and otherwise unintelligent.

There have been more people killed in the name of God for political reasons than for anything else. To condemn all people of faith though is wrong and indeed ignorant.

In doing so, a person has to automatically disregard all the good that has been brought to this world by people of faith, which I would argue, far outweighs the evil that has been done in God's (Insert your God here) name.

Advances in science, the arts, etc. all made possible by the patronage and indeed the direct work of people of faith and the various religions of the world.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #83 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 10:38 AM
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There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that using even the simplest of metrics, the acts of evil men in the name of a God or a religion will permanently outweigh any good that has been done by small enclaves of decent people.

All the really terrible stuff has been facilitated by organized religions at the highest levels. All the good stuff happens at the local level in a disjointed, accidental fashion.

Say what you want about the validity of the poll results; you will never be able to sell that "religion does more good than bad" bullshit.
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post #84 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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The whole point is still the willful misrepresentation of people of faith. In this instance "those who are church goers." No it doesn't. Look at the survey.
The article seeks to connect the two as causal when there is no evidence of one causing the other. No it doesn't, look at the survey.
I think that is what most people here have and issue with. That and the consistent pattern of those on the left continually trying to assert that people of faith are brutish, dim, and otherwise unintelligent. You Corky, are doing far more to propagate that assertion than I ever could.

There have been more people killed in the name of God for political reasons than for anything else. To condemn all people of faith though is wrong and indeed ignorant.

In doing so, a person has to automatically disregard all the good that has been brought to this world by people of faith, which I would argue, far outweighs the evil that has been done in God's (Insert your God here) name.

Advances in science, the arts, etc. all made possible by the patronage and indeed the direct work of people of faith and the various religions of the world. What was that you were saying about causality??
Pew forum:
The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, launched in 2001, seeks to promote a deeper understanding of issues at the intersection of religion and public affairs.

The Forum pursues its mission by delivering timely, impartial information to national opinion leaders, including government officials and journalists. As a nonpartisan, non-advocacy organization, the Forum does not take positions on policy debates.


Here Corky, have another go:

Pew Forum: The Religious Dimensions of the Torture Debate

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #85 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 11:40 AM
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There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that using even the simplest of metrics, the acts of evil men in the name of a God or a religion will permanently outweigh any good that has been done by small enclaves of decent people.

All the really terrible stuff has been facilitated by organized religions at the highest levels. All the good stuff happens at the local level in a disjointed, accidental fashion.

Say what you want about the validity of the poll results; you will never be able to sell that "religion does more good than bad" bullshit.
Not too sure about that - especially in the past 100 years.

Consider Stalin, Mao, Hirohito, Pol Pot, Rwanda/Burundi - lots of chopping there and nothing to do with religion. Mainly politics & tribal.
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post #86 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 11:47 AM
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Israel/Palestine, Al Qaeda/Taliban, Catholic child sex abuse, Orthodox Jew child sex abuse, Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh, the list goes on and on and on.
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post #87 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 12:45 PM
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There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that using even the simplest of metrics, the acts of evil men in the name of a God or a religion will permanently outweigh any good that has been done by small enclaves of decent people.

All the really terrible stuff has been facilitated by organized religions at the highest levels. All the good stuff happens at the local level in a disjointed, accidental fashion.

Say what you want about the validity of the poll results; you will never be able to sell that "religion does more good than bad" bullshit.
Who has set up the most hospitals? Who has been responsible for the actual idea of Hospitals?

In history, however, hospitals were often founded and funded by religious orders or charitable individuals and leaders. Similarly, modern-day hospitals are largely staffed by professional physicians, surgeons, and nurses, whereas in history, this work was usually done by the founding religious orders or by volunteers.

Who started Colleges? The origins of the college lie in the madrasah of the medieval Islamic world.

Medicine started and flourished as a result of religion. Prehistoric medicine incorporated plants (herbalism), animal parts and minerals. In many cases these materials were used ritually as magical substances by priests, shamans, or medicine men.

Not to mention mathematics. We would not be where we are without the Caliphate government in the Arab world a few thousand years ago. Mathematics in medieval Islam' or sometimes referred to as Islamic mathematics is a term used in the history of mathematics that refers to the mathematics developed in the Islamic world between 622 and 1600, in the part of the world where Islam was the dominant religion. Islamic science and mathematics flourished under the Islamic caliphate (also known as the Islamic Empire) established across the Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa, Sicily, the Iberian Peninsula, and in parts of France and India in the 8th century. The center of Islamic mathematics was located in Persia (including eastern part of present-day Iraq) , but at its greatest extent stretched from North Africa and Spain in the west and to India in the east

So in sum, I would say that for millions of people who have been killed in the name of various religions, BILLIONS have been helped.

I am by no way saying that religion is without sin (ironic huh?). What I am saying is that it is ridiculous for anyone to assert that Religion has not helped far more than it has hurt.

It has not been until the last few hundred years that we have even thought of not having religious based education or government.

Quite honestly it is ridiculous and in fact revisionist to assert what is plainly wrong.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #88 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 01:01 PM
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Obncgar,
Your list doesn't come close to rivaling that of "Keyhole", and especially if you throw Hitler in the mix. Land disputes and greed out rival religions any day of the week.
Next you have to ask which religions, and even a good number of those were, again, land disputes. Some for religious domination. Then religious domination by who? and how much. Christianity has it's faults in history as many religions do, but in the scheme of things of shear numbers, the numbers are miniscule.

Add Vikings, Ganges Kahn(sp), Saddam Hussein (if you want to talk child abuse , +) and so many other land dispute issues and slaughters to the mix.

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post #89 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 01:02 PM
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post #90 of 279 (permalink) Old 05-03-2009, 01:09 PM
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So in sum, I would say that for millions of people who have been killed in the name of various religions, BILLIONS have been helped.


So it's OK then ?



...... Murder ...for religious reasons only of course.
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